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  April Theme BotM: The Warrior's Apprentice, by Lois McMaster Bujold

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  Being a Vor lord on the planet Barrayar wasn't easy. And being the leader of a force of space-born mercenaries while maintaining a secret identity wasn't easy -- in fact, it should have been impossible. But neither impossibility nor danger ever slowed down young Miles Vorkosigan. After failing the Barrayaran Academy physical, Miles's natural (if unorthodox) leadership qualities quickly lead to his off-handedly acquiring a space fleet and more debt than he ever thought possible. Propelled by his manic "forward momentum" he obtains a lucrative cargo: a shipment of weapons destined for a dangerous war zone. . .
  --Shelfari description
  
  Post all your questions, thoughts, and discussion in this thread for The Warrior's Apprentice, by Lois McMaster Bujold. When you have finished reading the book (or if you give up, or if you know you aren't going to read it) vote in the poll here:
  
  http://www.acepolls.com/polls/1247920-what-did-you-think-of-the-warriors-apprentice-by-lois-mcmaster-bujold

  PhoenixFalls started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply | permalink )

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  PhoenixFalls 

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  Roll Call!

  Who's reading The Warrior's Apprentice this month? Who's discussing from memory?

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    I've read this so many times. . . it's one of my favorite Vorkosigan novels, for sheer screwball comedy gold and unexpectedly sharp emotional edges. Plus Miles is AWESOME. It makes me not even mind so much that Bujold never wrote more than two Cordelia novels. . .

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    I promised to read it if it wins, so I'm in...

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    Woo hoo! :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Paula_S 

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    I read this last year, so I'll be discussing it from memory.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Jasmine m 

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  I started this afternoon, it looks promising ...

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    I'm about half way through now, and having so much fun...

    I think part of it is because I'm not concentrating on the Sci-fi stuff like I did with the last book... I hated the (no Sci-fi) in Barrayar
    but I admit I'm impressed since the book came out years before the internet has spread and became international, she had already talked about navigating and shopping online, but she didn't predict Google search, I don't think anyone could've predicted that ;)

    but that's not all...the book is fun and I really like Miles, I like the group of misfits he assembled and many of the things I wanted and didn't have in the other books are here...I 'll elaborate when I'm done :)

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    Yay!!! Looking forward to seeing what you pull out of this one. . .

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Jasmine m (edited)

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  finished +++possible Spoilers ahead+++
  I usually give myself a day before reviewing a book.. to sleep on it...think of it as a whole, not how I felt at the end, but since I was loving the book from the beginning to the end, I see no difference, besides, I might leave on a vacation tomorrow and not get to write a review at all

  first ...let's get this straight, if this book was written in 21st century, I'd call it stupid and maybe hate it...no not really, I love Miles enough to forgive the politics, plus I let go of many inconceivable things, in favor of the overall plot....not sure I'm making any sense...examples are Tung joining with the Dendarii- I kept expecting treason, but knowing there will be none- the arrival of Elena's mother- now this one was a real stretch, was it necessary for everybody to learn the truth of Elena's conception this way...regardless, it was heart breaking....

  anyway... I'm not going to spend this review talking about things I already said I let go...

  now Miles, is a real piece of work, he's smart, he's a cripple, he's a cripple in a society that doesn't tolerate cripples, he's a cripple and the only son of a military genius and the strongest most influential man on the Planet (I'm sorry for using the word cripple..I feel bad using it, but i admit it's the right word) so I can see why would he go out to great lengths to prove his worth, I can see his struggle, his insecurities and worries and mostly his humanity... only one other writer reached me this way, and he's my favorite ever, that's Patrick Rothfuss, but here I'm not talking about him...

  there were parts I loved so much and will stay with me for a long time, Miles ..after a life time with Bothari, and being saved by him countless times chooses to remember him as the person who carries him on his shoulders during parades so he could get the best view, Miles looking through a window at his BIG fleet and imaging them hanging by nearly invisible threads like the ones he used to have as a kid hanging from the ceiling of his room, and wonders if they wold dance if he blew at them, only an image like that would put to perspective the scale of the game he was playing, and the stakes it held

  ok, I have million other examples like this one... but I'm stopping now, I'm tired of typing...

  in summery... 5 stars + ♥

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    YAY!!!

    Miles' body has got to be one of the most subversive elements in this really sneakily subversive series -- and I never really see people discussing it that way. SF is chock full of brawny men, Arnold Schwarzenegger types, either because they're really just Arnold Schwarzenegger types or because they've been technologically enhanced; and where the characters aren't quite that extreme they're at least always strong enough to somehow win any physical confrontation they're in, even when outnumbered. SF totally defaults to only physically able-bodied characters. And Miles ISN'T. He BREAKS. I LOVE that. And Bujold doesn't make it just a throwaway bit of characterization for representation or novelty's sake; everything Miles is is shaped by his body and how his world has responded to it. It's BRILLIANT.

    And Bothari. . . oh, Bothari. He's broken as much as Miles is, despite being one of those Arnold Schwarzenegger types, and I love how fraught his character is. It is absolutely perfect that Miles chooses to remember him being the one to lift him up on his shoulders at parades, and absolutely right that Elena's mother doesn't give a damn about that and sees him just as a monster. I have always wished Bujold would write a novel from Elena's point of view, because she ends this book trapped between those two places and then we never see how she comes to make her peace with that dichotomy.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    hi, I'm out of the country at the moment and as much as I'd like to continue the discussion, the internet is expensive like hell, so I think I'll make it short and say : "I'm reading The Vor Game now and loving it" if it's not to late I'll be voting for it for next month's discussion

    
    

    ** and there is no spelling check to top it all :( **

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    you know, I really hated Bothari in Barrayar, but I liked him in this book, I think it has something to do with Cordelia's assessment of his character, I think it was something like "becoming what you need him to become"
    I don't know about the Elena novel, are there books from other characters' POVs ?

    and I wanted to ask..how many of the series books are from Miles's POV? ... I know Cetaganda is one but I didn't check any of the other for fear of spoilers :D

    by the way, since The Vor Game didn't win the vote, I just want to say...I loved it ...even more than The Warrior's apprentice, not because of Miles's brilliance, or the larger scope of the plot...those were minor issues to me, but because this book gave me a better insight to the relationship between Miles and his father... the paragraphs that spoke about this relationship are the high points of the book to me, they are the parts I went back and re-read after fishing the book... wow..how I love this book !!....

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    Most of the rest of the books are from Miles' perspective. There are two ancillary novels from other perspectives -- Falling Free which is actually set a couple hundred years before Cordelia's Honor, and Ethan of Athos which is set sometime around Cetaganda but which only shares Ellie Quinn as a character from the main series -- but other than those all of the books are from Miles' perspective until the very late ones. Komarr is from his perspective and one other character's; A Civil Campaign is from like five different perspectives; and Cryoburn is from Miles' perspective plus two other characters. And then the forthcoming book, Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, is the much-awaited Ivan book, which I assume is entirely from Ivan's POV. . . :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    wow, this is the best news I got in a long time, I love Miles, and glad that all the books are about him, did Bujold write the first two books as an afterthought?
    I was just looking at the series arranged in publication dates and found that Barrayar comes after The Vor Game
    which means the readers at the time, met Miles in The Warrior's Apprentice, got hints about his predicament, and about the struggle that led to it, but then got the whole story from Barrayar, I wonder if I might have enjoyed Barrayar more have I read it after The Vor Game ...I know I want to reread it now, that I have a new perspective..

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    Bujold deliberately wrote her first three books -- Shards of Honor, The Warrior's Apprentice, and Ethan of Athos from three different perspectives and spaced enough in time that they weren't necessarily a series. . . at the time, stand-alone novels were more in vogue, so she was a little safer doing it that way rather than trying to sell a publisher on a huge multi-volume series. Then the books were popular enough that she could write more and she must have fallen in love with Miles just like you, so they were mostly about him. . . but when she was writing Shards she ended up writing what became the first half of Barrayar and had to cut it because she had overshot the ending. . . and years later when she had several more books under her belt she returned to finish it and publish it.

    Personally, I wish there were more about Aral and Cordelia!!! I love Miles too, but I love Cordelia more sometimes (though she is a GREAT supporting character in later books) and I would love to read more about Aral's regency on Barrayar, being into books about intrigue and politics. :)

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    what are you talking about? I LOVE Aral, and ADORE Cordelia, I already said I want to reread Barrayar, because I remember being too prejudiced (is this the word?) at the time, I was new to Sci-fi, and made the mistake of concentrating on the Sci-fi rather than the story itself...I remmeeber at the time saying that I'd rather read a non sci-fi book by Bujold, and actually adding "The Curse of Chalion" to my reading list, because I found her writing and characters wonderful

    I didn't make the mistake with The Warrior's Apprentice, when I decided to read it this month, I made a point of ignoring the science and concentrate on the plot, and this plan payed off, I love Miles, he is so real, but what I love more, is his relationship with the people around him, and you're right, I'd love to read a book from Aral's POV, that would be even more wonderful,

    you see, Aral is different from the cliche military fathers I always see in books and movies, where the father is a strict person who teats his family like soldiers and they have to call him sir and not disappoint him, but with Aral, I have to say, I had tears in my eyes when Miles mentions his father's lunch breaks that he spends with his son...he is very different from the image one might expect, and the way they reunited at the end of The Vor Game...wow

    I started Cetaganda last night, and curious to see how the sci-fi will develop in the later books of the series :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    I'll be interested in seeing what you think of Cetaganda. . . somehow it's never been one of my favorites. It has really cool world-building though!

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    I'm about 2/3 and it's not my favorite either, it seems like an episode in a show to me, where it's not connected with what happened before or what will happen next, if you know what I mean... unlike books #3 and #4 it doesn't seem to add to the larger picture, miles insists this case will effect the future relations between Cetaganda and Barrayar, but to me it's only his attempt at playing detective to impress a girl :D

    I still think it's too early to judge the book, I'll wait until I finish it to decide :)

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m (edited)

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    hi, I finished the book last night, and it was like I thought, I'm interested to see how this one would influence the story in the coming books, though I liked the reward/punishment Miles received in the end, those cetagandans are really smart :)
    I like the world as well, it's quite interesting, though I do have an aversion to such dystopian future (it is dystopian, isn't it ?), I can see humanity going that way already...the genetic engineering, today they claim it's to cure genetic diseases, or to find cure for cancer, but I can already see the technology turning into a commercial thing, just like plastic surgery... still it is an interesting approach to the concept of genetic engineering :)

    
    

    I understand the next book in the series is from a different POV, and if didn't manage to get Jemisin's new book I'll start reading Ethan of Athos) the description seems promising....

    I've been meaning to ask you about something, in Cetaganda Miles mentions playing detective bore, I believe it's in The mountains of Mourning right?
    I saw that you skipped it when you nominated The Vor Game so I decided it must be a side story or a novella, did I guess right?
    there is also the fact that the series I downloaded doesn't include tMoM - I downloaded the entire series via torrent when I decided to read Shards of Honor btw-
    oh, and in the series I downloaded, Cetaganda comes after Ethan of Athos, I got really confused then decided to go ahead and read Cetaganda first, because, at the moment I'm under the impression that the two stories happen simultaneously or something... do I make any sense, I feel like I'm blabbering incomprehensibly :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Paula_S 

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    The mountains of Mourning is a novella/short story. There are only a couple of them in the Vorkosigan Saga, but they are somewhat important for the overall story line. Nothing that should spoil the books, just things that make more sense if one has read the novellas.

    Ethan of Athos is stand-alone and I'm not really clear either when it takes place, just that it's placed after Cetaganda in the official chronology. I liked it a lot - it's a really different point-of-view this time!

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    What Paula said. The end of Ethan of Athos is probably a little after the end of Cetaganda, which is probably why it comes after in the official chronology, but they're mostly happening at the same time (at least the way I've always read them).

    "The Mountains of Mourning" is GOOD. You should do your best to find a way to read it before. . . um. . . before Memory at the latest, because it does become relevant then. :)

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    so i need to read The mountains of mourning soon? ok..it turned out it is one of the files I downloaded but it was labeled "Vorkosigan 06.5 - The Mountains of Mourning" so naturally I didn't notice the name and the files weren't exactly arranged chronologically...

    I have a question....should I stick to the arrangement of the books here on Shelfari? this seems the only logical thing to do...
    um...another question...which is the other short story?

    P.S. : started Ethan of Athos last night and it seems very promising... interesting world...though I miss Miles already

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    PhoenixFalls 

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    Lessee. . . the other short stories are "Labyrinth" and "The Borders of Infinity" and "Winterfair Gifts." If you want chronological order then yes, definitely follow the order on the series page. . . the only thing you may find confusing is that there are two entries titled "The Borders of Infinity" -- one is the short story, the other is a book that collected the first three short stories in the Saga around a frame story. The short story is the one with the blank-ish blue cover from fictionwise, assuming that you see the same page I do. ;)

    BTW, that means that "Labyrinth" and "The Borders of Infinity" would be up next after you finish Ethan of Athos. Which makes it a good time for you to circle back and hit "The Mountains of Mourning!" :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Jasmine m 

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    I was planning on reading The Mountains of Mourning right after I finish Ethan of Athos, but it will have to wait, since I just got Jemisin's new book "The Killing Moon" and it takes first priority...I'm really excited about it :)

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  PhoenixFalls 

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  Don't forget to vote in the poll!

  http://www.acepolls.com/polls/1247920-what-did-you-think-of-the-warriors-apprentice-by-lois-mcmaster-bujold

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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