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The Bibliophile Club

For anyone who likes to read Literature, History, Biographies,Classics, Politics, Mysteries, thrillers, spirituality and religion. Books that are interesting,popular and bring pleasure to one's life. No pornographic novels please.
  • Category: General | Melbourne | Started February 2009

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  • Marguerite M

    Septem 2011 Book of the Month: Sep is Banned Book Month

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    Since September is banned book month I thought I would do something a bit different. I'm not going to recommend a specific book, what I'm going to do is ask you to select a book based on the criteria below. Since we will all be reading different books, I would say feel free to post when you have finished reading your selection. If there are spoilers in your comments, just state that. Here is the criteria:

    * It has to be a book you have not read before.
    * You can list the book you plan to read and then come back and write your review. It might give other members some ideas.
    * Include a brief review, please include why you selected the book you choose, and rate it based on a 5 star system.
    * You can also discuss which list you got it from if you so choose.
    * Any comments in general on banning books.

    Happy reading. I look forward to reading the discussions.

    Here is one list I found. Feel free to use any list you are comfortable with.


    http://www.mchsmedia.com/uploads/2/7/2/7/2727950/banned_books_list2011.pdf
    Marguerite M started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply | permalink )

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  • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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    Sheesh - who banned The Prince of Tides and when? I've read most on the list. Does that make me a banned person? There are a few that are completely new to me. Might try one of them but I am SO over"booked" that I don't know if I can fit it in.

    DL

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Laurie G
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      Overbooked, love it! :)

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      That's funny DL. Well if you can fit one in your schedule it will be fun. I didn't notice Prince of Tides on the list. Probably because it deals with child rape.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Punxsutawney Paul
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    What a great idea! There are some odd titles on that list, but I guess pretty much anything might have been banned somewhere for some reason. I've already read many of them, but there are several classics I've always meant to read but haven't, including 'The Grapes of Wrath' - a title that will count towards almost all of my personal reading goals. So I may take that on this month. Cheers!

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      Thank you. I was trying to look up selections, so I googled book groups September selections and one of the sites was dedicated to September being banned book month and I just couldn't pick one, so I decided to let everyone pick their own. I have Slaughter House Five reserved at the Library. I have no idea what it is about, but it got mentioned on my favorite tv show (Criminal Minds), so I figured I would try it.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Laurie G
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      There is a "Banned Book " group on this site and they have a listing.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      Thanks Laurie, that's awesome.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Punxsutawney Paul
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      I've finished The Grapes now, and still feeling a little raw. It's the kind of book that forces you to look at the inequality in the world, and feel pity and shame. There's a strong socialist agenda, sexual honesty, dignity and vulgarity. But Steinbeck seems to be calling things as he sees them. One aspect of the story that seems to be behind many attempts at censorship is the character of the preacher who lost his faith, yet remains a humble and decent man. He's not the role-model that some organisations want to promote.

      I can understand that folks might get defensive when reading this sort of book, especially back when it was first written. But attempting to suppress or censor this book simply suggests a shared sense of guilt. I don't doubt that some parents would prefer their children to steer clear of this book, it is after all an indictment of The Great American Dream, but banning it from entire Libraries isn't going to make the world a better place. Whereas, righteous indignation may.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      Paul, I started reading this books years ago and never got into it. I think I have to try again. Thanks for this review, it is making me think :)

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • TheLibrarian

    TheLibrarian (edited)

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    Some other resources:

    http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/bannedbooksweek/index.cfm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_commonly_challenged_books_in_the_United_States


    This "theme" coincides nicely with ALA Banned Book week.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • TheLibrarian
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    Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      I have never even heard of that. I'm so excited about all the different books that will be listed. I can't wait for the write-ups.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • TheLibrarian
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      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Tell_It_on_the_Mountain_(novel)

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • TheLibrarian
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      From Medialiteracy.com
      Reasons why books are banned:
      http://suzannepitner.suite101.com/why-books-are-banned-a131331

      What I find interesting, especially when lined up against the reasons for banning books in the first place, is that the banned books are typically fiction. It makes me wonder, why? If fiction is just that - something made up. Why ban fiction, when the same topics are covered in non-fiction books, oftentimes to a much more uncomfortable level of detail.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • TheLibrarian
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      With respect to Baldwin's book. I enjoyed his writing very much and will eventually read more of them. He's a very prolific Black writer and it will be interesting to see how he handles characters, plot, and highly-charged social/racial situations in other novels. Since he wrote long before the Civil Rights movements of the 60s, it is not surprising that his books have been the subject of controversy. It is easy to see where mainstream white Americans would be fearful of hearing the Black man's perspective.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Punxsutawney Paul
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      The linked article makes interesting reading. I hadn't realised that the well-intentioned public could wield so much influence over school libraries. It all seems a little petty to me. If a curious mind is keen to read a banned work it's sure to find a way to do so. Presumably the act of banning a book raises its profile and makes it a more compelling choice. And if a moral compass can be broken by reading a book, then maybe there's something wrong with that compass already.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      @Paul. I couldn't agree more. I had on my bookshelf for a very long time The Temptation of Christ just because I was walking by a bookstore and two Priests were standing in front telling people to boycott the store because they had that book on the shelf. I went right in and bought it. I never got around to reading it and I finally gave it to a friend who really wanted to read it. Just that they were saying people should not buy that book...well I never liked to be told what to do.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Laurie G
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      Way to go Marguerite!

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Jane V
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    Great idea! I'm going to try to read Slaughterhouse-Five by Vonnegut this month. I found it on the banned and challenged classics list at http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/frequentlychallenged/challengedclassics/reasonsbanned/index.cfm.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      That's great, I also selected that one. I'm just waiting for my library to get it in.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Book Concierge
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    The Call of the Wild - Jack London
    Audio book performed by Patrick Lawlor
    4 ****

    I am not a “dog person” and did not expect to like this classic tale, but I’m really glad I read this when I did. My father was a great outdoorsman and he loved animals, but especially our dogs. I listened to the first half on audio, but then finished by reading the actual book. This last half is when Buck, a St Bernard / Shepherd mix has finally found a man he loves and who loves him. They respect one another, and the hierarchy of the camp, but Buck is increasingly called to the wild. The writing is vivid – you can feel the cold, or the pain of hunger, or the joy of a Spring day. And Buck is a noble narrator. I re-read it today, remembering my father and our many dogs through the years.

    NOTE I finished reading this for the first time on Aug 31 ... as I was driving down to Texas. Frankly, with all that was going on it was out of my head just about as fast as I read it. I hadn't written a review, so I decided to re-read it today for that purpose. I think it still counts as my initial read was so recent.
    The book is on the American Library Association list of the most frequently challenged books (# 33 out of 100). That's probably because, while it's frequently classified as children's literature, it has some very dark and violent scenes.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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  • Marguerite M

    Marguerite M (edited)

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    Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut
    4/5 stars

    Wow, I had no idea what this book was about so was totally unprepared for it. I'm not sure there is a way to prepare for it. As a writing style it jumps around a lot, but once you get used to that you just go with it. I'm sad to say I didn't know anything about the bombing of Dresden, but I plan on reading more about it. As for the story itself:

    We meet a man who survived the bombing. He decides to go visit an old friend who was also there. Then we are introduced to Billy Pilgrim. Billy Pilgrim travels through time so we learn a little about the war when he happens to drop in. We also learn about aliens, and a bit about the optometry business. I think because the story jumps around I had a delayed reaction to anything sad. There was also a lot of foreshadowing so there wasn't too much that was a surprise. The bombing was still horrific, and the idea that war is hell sure came through. There also were some real sit up and take notice moments. When he is talking to the aliens and he as "why him" and they respond "there is no why, there is only what is" I'm still processing that. Such a good book and I was curious why it was banned. Yes, there is some rough language and some sexual content scenes, but I didn't think it was worse than some of the video games or tv shows on today. Yet, this book has been banned recently due to religious and sexual content. I think some parents are a bit unaware of what their kids are being exposed to. I can't watch CW without blushing and they had problems with the sexual content in this book. Well I copied a long explanation of when and why the book had been banned. I'll bet this is not even a full list. It was interesting though. As for my thoughts on banning. I'm not a fan. Anything you read helps you to think and question and explore. I have maintained in my life there was no such thing as a trashy book since all books are written by people and are about people. Even animal stories, the animals are personified. Therefore I really don't support banning. If a parent really doesn't want a child to read a book, they should be allowed to pick another, but to ban a book from the school library? Unless it's outright pron, I just can't support it. That's my two cents on banning. Here's what was said about Slaughterhouse Five.

    Slaughterhouse Five, by Kurt Vonnegut

    Challenged in many communities, but burned in Drake, ND (1973). Banned in Rochester, MI because the novel "contains and makes references to religious matters" and thus fell within the ban of the establishment clause. An appellate court upheld its usage in the school in Todd v Rochester Community Schools, 41 Mich. App. 320, 200 N. W 2d 90 (1972). Banned in Levittown, NY (1975), North Jackson, OH (1979), and Lakeland, FL (1982) because of the "book's explicit sexual scenes, violence, and obscene language." Barred from purchase at the Washington Park High School in Racine, WI (1984) by the district administrative assistant for instructional services. Challenged at the Owensboro, KY High School library (1985) because of "foul language, a section depicting a picture of an act of bestiality, a reference to 'Magic Fingers' attached to the protagonist's bed to help him sleep, and the sentence: 'The gun made a ripping sound like the opening of the fly of God Almighty."' Restricted to students who have parental permission at the four Racine, WI Unified District high school libraries (1986) because of "language used in the book, depictions of torture, ethnic slurs, and negative portrayals of women." Challenged at the LaRue County, KY High School library (1987) because "the book contains foul language and promotes deviant sexual behavior.” Banned from the Fitzgerald, GA schools (1987) because it was filled with profanity and full of explicit sexual references:' Challenged in the Baton Rouge, LA public high school libraries (1988) because the book is "vulgar and offensive:' Challenged in the Monroe, MI public schools (1989) as required reading in a modem novel course for high school juniors and seniors because of the book's language and the way women are portrayed. Retained on the Round Rock, TX Independent High School reading list (1996) after a challenge that the book was too violent. Challenged as an eleventh grade summer reading option in Prince William County, VA (1998) because the book "was rife with profanity and explicit sex:" Removed as required reading for sophomores at the Coventry, RI High School (2000) after a parent complained that it contains vulgar language, violent imagery, and sexual content. Retained on the Northwest Suburban High School District 214 reading list in Arlington Heights, IL (2006), along with eight other challenged titles. A board member, elected amid promises to bring her Christian beliefs into all board decision-making, raised the controversy based on excerpts from the books she'd found on the internet. Challenged in the Howell, MI High School (2007) because of the book's strong sexual content. In response to a request from the president of the Livingston Organization for Values in Education, or LOVE, the county's top law enforcement official reviewed the books to see whether laws against distribution of sexually explicit materials to minors had been broken. "After reading the books in question, it is clear that the explicit passages illustrated a larger literary, artistic or political message and were not included solely to appeal to the prurient interests of minors," the county prosecutor wrote. "Whether these materials are appropriate for minors is a decision to be made by the school board, but I find that they are not in violation of criminal laws."

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Punxsutawney Paul
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      I read Slaughterhouse Five last year and was quite unprepared for what turned out to be a very special novel. So it goes.

      I've actually forgotten most of the plot, but what's stayed with me are a recognition of excellent writing, some thought provoking ideas, and a moving message about the firebombing of Dresden. I can't remember anything that would justify censorship, if anything I think this book ought to be promoted in schools as it's the kind of work that broadens the mind.

      Banning of books is something I associate with repressive regimes. It's true that some works should be read with caution, and some may not be age-appropriate, and a great many aren't worth reading at all; but banning them is not a healthy response.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Jane V
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      I just finished this. Interesting book. I don't think I "got" all of it.

      There is something I'm wondering about and I want to know if anyone out there has an opinion. This is a book in which a writer writes a a book about a man named Billy Pilgrim which paralleled his own life. In one of the psychiatric hospital scenes, Vonnegut writes that Rosewater and Billy "were dealing with similar crises in similar ways. They had both found life meaningless, partly because of what they had seen in the war. ...So they were trying to re-invent themselves and their universe. Science Fiction was a big help." This is briefly followed by "Billy heard Rosewater say to a psychiatrist, "I think you guys are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on living." In the science fiction world of the book, the aliens make it clear that fate is predetermined; there is no such thing as free will. Does Vonnegut do this this because it is the only way that Billy (and Billy's author) can live with the tragedies of the world?

      And so it goes.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      Jane, I felt that during the whole book Vonnegut is really talking to the reader. Anything that Billy or anyone else does is meant as a point of thought for the reader. I'm sure there are some people who feel that way, and Vonnegut was giving them a way of making sense of this crazy world. My favorite quote in the whole book was "There is now why, there is only what is." I just thought that was powerful. That's my thought anyway.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W
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    Great idea, Marguerite...and what a list! It will be hard to decide which to read. I've already got quite a few still unread on my "real" bookshelf!

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the banned books. What really surprised me was the Slaughterhouse Five was banned at one school because of religious content. I must have a super high tolerance for religious content, because I don't remember too much of it.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • James F
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    Im reading Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy for this.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      I can't wait for your review.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • James F

      James F (edited)

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      Philip Pullman, The Golden Compass [1995] 351 pages

      The first book of a trilogy, His Dark Materials.

      This book begins with one of the most familiar of YA fantasy formulas: Lyra, a stubborn, wild, but brave and intelligent ten year old girl, apparently an orphan, leaves her home at Jordan College (in an alternative world Oxford) with a magic device (the "Golden Compass" of the title, otherwise known as an "alethiometer") and begins a series of improbable adventures (fleeing from a vast, shadowy conspiracy) which soon turn into a quest motif; and it becomes obvious that she is destined to save the world from an inconceivable evil. Add in gypsies, witches, and intelligent animals. How many times have we seen some variant of that in recent fantasy literature? I must admit that I generally avoid this sort of story like the plague.

      However, after a somewhat slow beginning, the narrative becomes very fast paced and is obviously better written than most formula fantasies. In the later books, it becomes something else altogether, and this is what justifies considering it more seriously.

      Sticking to this book, though, there were some good points and some annoyances. As for the annoyances: It is an alternative world or alternative history novel, which I generally dislike, and despite a science fiction explanation in terms of quantum theory and collapsing probabilities I found it somewhat hard to suspend my disbelief when some aspects of the world obviously diverged a long time before the action and other aspects are so close that they seem to require a shorter time period; there is a combination of advanced and primitive technology which is hard to accept, at times bordering on "steampunk". But this became less bothersome as the book progressed and I became caught up in the story. The second annoyance was with the character of the protagonist; she is obviously intelligent and living in a center of scholarship, yet seems determined not to learn anything from it (this is the same annoyance I have with Harry Potter and most other fantasies aimed at younger people; they all buy into the anti-intellectualism of twentieth century American school life and extend it universally.)

      On the positive side, the writing is very good, and the description of the "Church" is very realistically done. However, I probably would not have cared much for the trilogy if it had continued in the formula vein of the first book.


      Philip Pullman, The Subtle Knife [1997] 288 pages

      The second book of His Dark Materials.

      The adventures of Lyra continue and the character of Will is introduced. While the book still follows the fantasy quest formula, and continues to be a fast paced adventure, a religious theme based partly on Paradise Lost is introduced, and the trilogy becomes somewhat more serious.



      Philip Pullman, The Amber Spyglass [2000] 465 pages

      The third and final book of His Dark Materials.

      In this book, drawing on ideas from Paradise Lost and the New Testament pseudepigrapha, among other things, the story becomes more metaphorical, and the issues involved become more real than the made up threats in other fantasy novels; essentially the conflict is one between free, critical intelligence and uncritical acceptance of authority. While the anti-clerical, and anti-Christian elements come to the fore, the argument is not really focused on religion, it seems to me that rather than using metaphors for God the novel uses God as a metaphor -- significantly, the Church and the angels refer to him as "The Authority". In the end, the rebellion of the angels disappears from view and other aspects of the novel become more important, other metaphors, and particularly "dust", which has played a significant role throughout the trilogy, is explained here.

      I enjoyed the trilogy and found it quite thought-provoking, but I think a reader's reaction to it will depend very much on his or her attitudes to "faith" and religion. I can understand why this was challenged by the religious right.


      -------------------------------------------------------
      [Spoilers here] On the literal level, the trilogy just doesn't work, because there is a contradiction between the fantasy and the science fiction aspects; the fantasy is based entirely on the uniqueness of the knife, and the final choice of Will and Lyra to not use the knife and to allow all the windows to be closed. But the science fiction explanation for the alternate worlds is a version of quantum theory in which every choice creates an alternative world which only differs from the original at that moment in that the choice was made the other way; so virtually infinitely many worlds would contain knives, each with a different Will and a different Lyra (and other knife bearers) who not only could but must make that choice both ways to create two alternative worlds; so there is no way that all the holes in all the worlds would be closed up. (It doesn't matter if that version of the theory is actually true; it's the version which is presupposed by the novel.) Of course this doesn't affect the metaphorical core of the story.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      James, thanks for your review. I saw the movie and felt that there was just nothing new to intrigue me. I enjoy reading fantasy so I might give these a try, but it sounds like a remake of so many other stories I have read. I still think The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are the standard bearers. I have yet to read a fantasy story I like better. I'm glad you brought up the intelligence topic. I also find a lot of stories today tell kids it's ok if your not smart. I guess I'll just have to keep watching Baby Einsteins.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Punxsutawney Paul
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      I read His Dark Materials a few years back after it achieved an unlikely third position in the BBC's Big Read poll: http://www.shelfari.com/series/BBC-%27Big-Read%27-Top-200-Novels-2003 . I've managed to forget most of it now, but was left with the general impression that it didn't live up to its reputation. Great review.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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