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The Bibliophile Club

For anyone who likes to read Literature, History, Biographies,Classics, Politics, Mysteries, thrillers, spirituality and religion. Books that are interesting,popular and bring pleasure to one's life. No pornographic novels please.
  • Category: General | Melbourne | Started February 2009

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  • Darra W

    July 2011 Book of the Month: A Medieval Mystery

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    "The year is 1327. Franciscans in a wealthy Italian abbey are suspected of heresy, and Brother William of Baskerville arrives to investigate. When his delicate mission is suddenly overshadowed by seven bizarre deaths, Brother William turns detective. His tools are the logic of Aristotle, the theology of Aquinas, the empirical insights of Roger Bacon--all sharpened to a glistening edge by wry humor and a ferocious curiosity..."

    Thus begins the cover blurb on the 1983 Harcourt Brace & Company, William Weaver, English-language translation of Umberto Eco's internationally acclaimed historical mystery, "The Name of the Rose." I've just started it tonight, and it looks to be a rich, challenging read. Won't you join me?

    "Official" discussion will open on July 20, but feel free to register any "spoiler free" comments in the meantime.
    Darra W started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply | permalink )

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  • Punxsutawney Paul
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    I've read it twice already.. it's one of my favourite novels. I'll be interested to see what the group thinks of it.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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    Oooooh! I bought this (along with a few other Eco titles) a couple of years ago. Never could squeeze it into my reading plan. Now that "Bibliophile Selections" is part of my plan, I can move it to the top of my towering TBR pile(s)!

    I have heard such great things about this title and this author.

    DL

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Marguerite M
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    Sounds great, I'm going to go get it from the library tonight.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • bookkaddict
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    I have this book...I've tried to read it a couple of times...maybe third time's the charm.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      I'm curious, I just got it from the library and the writing is kind of small and there's lots and lots of pages, so I'm a tad intimidated. What made you put it down?

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • bookkaddict
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      Life intervened (lol) and I didn't get to read very much but I also couldn't get into the read as quickly as I had hoped. But it is such a highly regarded novel that I really don't want to completely give up on reading it just yet.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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      Marguerite,

      My copy has only 502 pages (hardback) and fairly large font size. What does your copy have that makes it appear to be so big?

      DL

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      Hey DL, mine is also 502, but the print seems small to me. Maybe I'm getting old :)

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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      Nyah - I'm older than you! Just different printing styles, I guess.

      DL

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Book Concierge
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    I read this when it first came out ... way back in the day. As I recall, I loved it and just flew through it. But I tried reading it again last year and just couldn't get into it. I gave up after about 40 pages. I had a double major in college - psychology and philosophy; but the exposition on philosophy just didn't float my boat last summer.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W
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    I'm about 350 pages in. It took me awhile to get into it, but now that I'm in, I'm "in."

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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  • Darra W
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    I finished earlier this week, and am looking forward to this discussion!

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Book Worm
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    finished today looking forward to seeing what you all think.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W

    Darra W (edited)

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    Time to open up official discussion on "The Name of the Rose." (How did it get to be July 20th? Wow...this year is flying by!)

    I don't think I've ever read a book like this before, and I'll admit that I found it a challenging read. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy it; I simply found that there were times when my mind would wander, and I'd need to make a conscious effort to refocus my attention. The writing was so dense, and there was so much to reflect on, I could read only a limited number of pages at a time, so it took me longer than usual to read...and I'm certain that a great deal still managed to escape me. Truthfully, I'm not sure how much of the religious history and the philosophy was authentic and how much--if any--was purely fictional, and I ran across a good bit of both disciplines in the latter stages of my Catholic education.

    Upon finishing the novel, I did some online research, and discovered a 1991 essay in The Library Journal that numbers the quantity of hardcover copies sold in the US alone, between 1983 and 1987, at a million plus...that's HARDCOVER copies. Doesn't that seem huge, especially for a novel of this complexity? Somehow I don't see this one showing up very often on the beach or on an airplane, or am I underestimating the diligence of the average reader? Would love to hear what you have to say.

    As for the work itself, I enjoyed the atmospheric setting, the mystery, and the deep background on medieval monasteries and libraries. I learned a great deal reading TNofR; I'm just not sure how much I'll retain.

    Comments?

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Marguerite M
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    In my review I described this as a mix of Pillars of the Earth, Sherlock Holmes, and Tale of Two Cities. I enjoyed it very much. I also wished I had more of an understanding of the Bible, Latin, and church dogma. I was a bit disappointed in the ending. Spoiler Alert: It almost seemed to easy to have it be Jorge. He was so cranky and always talking about the end of the world. I read Dante's Divine Comedy last summer and in the intro they talked a bit about the politics of Rome and this story seemed to mirror some of those ideas. Mists of Avalon was another book that showed the struggle of the church trying to become valid. All in all I'm very glad I read it. I would not have it were not for this group.

    Does anyone speak Latin? Do you feel there was a lot missed by skipping those parts?

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Darra W
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      I love your comparisons, Marguerite, and I wondered about the Latin thing also. I studied Latin in high school and college and spent the better part of my youth attending the "pre-vernaculate" church (about a million years ago!) , but I've retained a surprising amount--not necessarily conjugations and tenses, but enough vocabulary that I could pretty much figure out what was being said in the Latin sections of the book.

      On the other hand, I'm reading the new translation of "War and Peace" with my book club this summer, and the French conversations are retained, but there are translations at the bottom of the page. Since I've never studied French, I'd be lost without them. I sympathize with anyone who struggled with the Latin in "The Name of the Rose."

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Book Worm
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      There was also German and the made up latin that Salvatore spoke.

      I think you could work out the context of the latin by the preceding and following sentences however it would have been nice to have a proper translation.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • James F
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      I read Latin, and the languages Salvatore uses (Old French and Occitan, mainly). I thought those passages were a bonus, but not necessary to understand what was going on; like the many allusions to mediaeval (and modern) philosophy. I think it is amazing the way Eco writes a good popular story that became a bestseller, and at the same time has so much else for the more intellectual reader -- a difficult feat. In many ways like the Bible itself, and very mediaeval in spirit.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • James F
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    By an interesting coincidence as I'm re-reading The Name of the Rose, since with my wrist I can only work a couple hours a day, my boss gave me the project of taking home and listening to all our Gregorian chant CDs, to decide which to keep and which to weed. So I have the perfect background music for reading this.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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      I'm interested in those chants! I noticed some new offerings on Amazon and didn't realize the different kind of chants associated with the Christian tradition. (Previously, I'd only heard of Gregorian.) This is new terrain for me but, for some reason, I really want to hear more.

      Are there some specific recordings you recommend?

      DL

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • James F
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      Most of our collection is in one series by the Monastic Choir of Solesmes, put out by Paraclete Press. They seem to me quite good selections.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • James F
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    This is my second reading of this novel: the first time was about a decade after it was written, when it was suggested to me by my professor in a mediaeval philosophy class, and became an immediate favorite, and this time twenty years later for the group read here. Of course the second time around the mystery was no longer as effective, although I had forgotten some of the details, but I perhaps paid more attention to other aspects. This is far more than just a mystery novel.

    In fact, this is almost a perfect model of the postmodernist novel. Like the mediaeval literature it is modeled on with a deliberate display of intertextuality, it is composed of many different levels of meaning, of which the "detective" story is only the one designed for the popular reader. It is also a historical novel of the political and religious currents of mid-fourteenth century Italy, and a serious discussion of metaphysical and epistemological questions which originating at that time have permeated later philosophy.

    It is a tribute to Eco's skill that a book steeped in mediaeval theology and studded with quotations in Latin, with only one short love scene narrated in metaphors from scripture, became a best-seller not only in Italy but in the US as well.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • avd.reader
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    Hi all, I hope you don't mind my joining in. It's been a while since I visited this group and a few years since I read The Name of the Rose. Here is what I thought about it and wrote as a comment for the book on my shelf.
    The Name of the Rose killed multiple birds with one hefty stone. The volume is, as Eco states in his preface, "a tale of books" – a compendium of individual books, genres, of book contents, masterfully illuminated and illustrated books, books as art form, and about books as media of preservation and change.
    It is a postmodern abundance of texts, text echoes, topics, and genres. To present his story of Brother William of Baskerville, a Sherlock-Holmes-style monk detective, the historian narrator uses the classic pattern of a murder mystery and places it in the dark gothic setting of a medieval abbey. Like Holmes, William of Baskerville has a sidekick, the young Benedictine monk Adson von Melk. The medieval monk detective, like his modern counterpart, uses logic, science, lenses for tracing tracks, occasional drugs, goes from manic spurs of observation to passive contemplation, and - before solving the case and exposing the monk murderer - solves a sample case to prove his capabilities of deduction. Weaving in and out of the book's story are long passages of non-narrative text - scholarly treatises about Franciscans and Rosicrucians, lists, catalogues, and inventories of things like book titles, healing plants, mythical creatures, precious stones and their magical or symbolical qualities, as well as quotations from medieval texts. And, of course, at the center of it all – the book, the novel, and the gothic murder mystery - is the labyrinth of the library. This was a word-heavy, not always easy to take, but utterly gripping book. And like James said, it is the perfect example of a postmodernist novel.
    Looking back, I mostly remember the mystery story parts and that it felt like you had to wander through a labyrinth of text to get to it.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      Great write up Avid.reader
      I find that I tend to think more about the evolution of the church. From it's humble beginnings to it's world status. This book made me realize the church today is made up of two thousand years of discussions and heartfelt soul searching, with some petty politics thrown in for good measure.

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
    • Darra W
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      Mind? No way! I'm glad you joined in. Your insightful comments add a great deal to the discussion. I hadn't thought about the labyrinth-within-a-labyrinth construction of the book, but now that you have pointed it out, it seems so obvious. Thank you!

      posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )
  • Book Worm
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    My book has illustrations of the abbey and the labyrinth in the library so I was always looking at the pictures to see where the action was happening and seeing the library laid out really helped to follow what William was explaining.

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  • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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    More kudos to Bibliophile for driving me to new reading experiences (and helping me mow down some of my TBR pile!)

    May be (very) late but I did read this one this week.

    Oh my!

    Warning - spoilers and wholly self-indulgent ramblings included: http://www.shelfari.com/books/30811/The-Name-of-the-Rose/reviews/3631546

    DL

    posted 11 months ago. ( permalink )
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