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  • Category: General | Melbourne | Started February 2009

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  • Darra W

    November 2010 Reading Selection: "If on a Winter's Night a Traveler" by Italo Calvino

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    I've heard lots of intriguing things about this postmodern novel. Let's give it a try and see what kind of buzz it generates here. I'll post a few discussion questions on November 20, but feel free to register any "spoiler free" comments in the meantime. Enjoy!

    Darra W started this discussion 2 years ago (edited). ( reply | permalink )

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  • Marguerite M
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    Well some of the reviews look good. I have reserved it at the library. I'm excited to get started.

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  • Marguerite M
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    I just had to say, I read the first chapter and was laughing out loud already, so it's looking good :)

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  • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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    I'm so glad to hear that! I received my combined set just yesterday - http://www.shelfari.com/books/3508603/Italo-Calvino

    I admit that the cover art made me wonder if this was gonna be dull and dreary. Guess not!

    DL

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  • Punxsutawney Paul
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    Just finished reading this one. It's a very odd book. I'm not sure that it's really possible to spoil the plot as such, but I'll refrain from posting my review anyway just in case. There are many interesting ideas in the book, plenty of scope for discussion. I've given it 5 stars in my review: http://www.shelfari.com/books/4408524/If-on-a-Winters-Night-a-Traveler/reviews/2442101 .

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    • Marguerite M
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      I'm a bit more than 1/2 way through and I agree with you. I told a friend if it was not so wonderfully written I might have given up on it, but I just sit and grin while I'm reading it. Even if I have no earthly idea of what exactly is going on. It sounds like that is not going to change. I'll just keep enjoying it.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W
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    Yikes!!! Look like I'd better get going...but want to read "The Woman in White" first ;-)

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  • casiana
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    I love the book! I've never read something like it.

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  • Laurie G
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    I will have to see if I can get this on ILL.I have a few of his books on my TBR but not this one.

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  • Marguerite M
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    I finished this and am excited about the discussion. What a wild book.

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    • Laurie G
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      I just ordered the book thru ILL. I should have by end of week.

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    • Marguerite M
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      I would suggest just read and enjoy. Don't try too hard to understand. You'll see what I mean as your reading it :)

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Laurie G

      Laurie G (edited)

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      ok,thank you for the head's up. PS I have a stew recipe for you,will email later today!
      edited to fix spelling. also to say you haveme intrigued by this book!

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • amyra l
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    Hi,
    Well i'm a new member in here and I was really happy to discover that you decided to try reading postmodern novel for this month. I like postmodern novels and theory in general may be because of the "margin-stand" it adopts. Anyway, and if you like I can suggest some postmodern titles to start with and, who knows, may be you'll like this challenging literary trend.

    posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W
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    WOW! As i described it in my homepage review, for me, this novel was like one of those old-time Saturday afternoon movie serials, but with a different cast of characters and plot every week.

    I haven't read many postmodern novels, so "On a winter's night..." was a real adventure for me, very different from what I normally read. (I think I need to give Paul Auster another go.) It was SO multi-layered, so challenging, that I had to read it very slowly. I agree with Paul: it took a great deal of effort and concentration. While I can't say I loved it, I certainly enjoyed and appreciated the cerebral puzzle. Calvino is a genius. I started jotting down notes as I read, and finally had to give up. My brain was ready to explode!

    There were so many times throughout where Calvino teased us with the premise of the novel. For example, in chapter five, Ludmilla claims: "The novel I would most like to read at this moment should have as its driving force only the desire to narrate, to pile stories upon stories, without trying to impose a philosophy on you, simply allowing you to observe its own growth, like a tree, and entangling, as if of branches and leaves..."

    and in chapter six, "...Marana proposes to the Sultan a strategem prompted by the literary tradition of the Orient: he will break off this translation at the moment of greatest suspense to the reader, and will begin translating another novel, inserting it into the first with through some rudimentary experiment..."

    and, the parenthetical discourse in chapter seven, where the Reader addresses Ludmilla, and comments: "But how to establish the first moment in which a story begins? Everything has already begun before, the first line of the first page of every novel refers to something that has already happened outside the book..."

    and my favorite, the opening of chapter nine, where traveling in an airplane--a "metallic uterus"...I love that!--is a metaphor for the experience of reading this novel: "...you cross a gap in space, you vanish into the void, you accept not being in a any place for a duration that is itself a kind of void in time; then you reappear , in a place and in a moment with no relation to the where and the when in which you vanished."

    Some additional thoughts/questions follow.

    posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Darra W

    Darra W (edited)

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    At what point did you realize that the various book titles formed a single sentence? What was the purpose of this device?

    In chapter five, the translator asks, "What does the name of an author on the jacket matter?" How would you answer that question?

    The translator continues by asking, "Let us move forward in thought to three thousand years from now. Who knows which books from our period will be saved, and who knows which authors will be remembered? Some books will remain famous but will be considered anonymous works, as for us the epic of Gilgamesh; other authors' names will still be well known, but none of their works will survive, as was the case with Socrates; or perhaps all the surviving books will be attributed to a single, mysterious author, like Homer." What do YOU think?

    In chapter seven, the Reader speculates on what Ludmilla's home (kitchen, collections, etc.) would reveal about her. What would your home--and particularly your book collection--say about you to someone who doesn't know you particularly well and is entering your home for the first time?

    In the last novel--"What story down there awaits its end?"--the narrator comments, "Once you've succeeded in dispensing with something you thought essential, you realize you can also do without something else, then without many other things." How do you respond to this statement? (Reminds me of that old George Carlin routine on "Stuff.")

    That's it for starters...I expect there will be more to come. Please post any questions or comments you'd like to see discussed as well.

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    • Marguerite M
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      Opps, I never noticed. I was so flumuxed trying to figure out what was going on. I was more than 1/2 through before I realized there was no end to each of the stories.

      Well, honestly if the name on the jacket is Italo Calvino I might pass. It was nice once, I don't think I want to go through that again.

      Unless we manage to destroy all the technology I think that will become less of a possibility. As we go forward technology will allow more and more info so we will be able to access authors etc with a keystroke. My fear is at some point people will stop trying to be creative because everything that can be said would have been said, it's just a matter of finding it.

      Kitchen screams this girl can't cook. Especially cause all my cookbooks are beginner, under 30 minutes, quick & easy etc. My book collection..I can't make a decision since I have a bit of everything.

      It's 100% true. I am in a new phase of "If I can't pay cash I can't afford it." I tell my family all the time you would be amazed at how much "need to have" is actually "want to have".

      My question...did anyone else find this book totally delightful and yet at the same time get a headache while reading it. There were times that I felt I couldn't get my breath.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Punxsutawney Paul
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    Regarding the questions:

    I struggled reading this one. I kept looking for hidden meaning in order to make sense of the whole thing. I was half expecting anagrams, or acrostics, or coded messages, or something like that. Never did find anything along those lines, but the titles forming the first sentence of yet another book was something that jumped out at me from the table of contents. Not sure how far in I got before noticing that, but it was early on.

    Re: the name of the author. I guess we all make assumptions. I quite liked the idea that authors can be fictional characters. I like a certain amount of predictability to my books, I get frustrated when one of my them is put back in the wrong place... so if someone swapped all the covers round I'd be livid.

    Re: 3000 years in the future. I sometimes get a bit snobbish about only reading classics. I like to think that I'm reading the world's major works and avoiding the unimportant stuff. The problem is how to recognise a modern classic? Some works that hit the best-seller lists 10 years ago are pretty much forgotten now. So who can predict what'll happen in the long-term? Maybe we'll have to make artistic sculptures out of the losing books. And maybe Shelfari will still be there to help us remember.

    My book collection says 'needs to get out more'.

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    • Darra W
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      Love the comment about your book collection, Paul! The same could probably be said about mine, along with "has a strange obsession with English history from the conquest until the death of Elizabeth I."

      I agree, this book was a struggle, but ultimately I enjoyed the challenge. It certainly wasn't anything I could lose myself in, and that was a bit of a disadvantage as I tend to read only one book at a time, and I got a little "antsy."

      As for what constitutes a modern classic: I think you've raised some good points...so good, that I'd like to open the broad question up to the entire group, not just those who've read this particular book.

      I always look forward to your comments, Paul.

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    • Punxsutawney Paul
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      :-)

      I found a wealth of intriguing ideas in Traveler (or 'Traveller' here in the UK). Like the idea that you can 'read' a book through statistical analysis of the word frequencies. Or that 'the true and the false is only a prejudice of ours'. Or prisons being the place to go to find banned books. Or the desire to 'defeat' the 'functions of the author'.

      I tend to keep notes as I'm reading so that I have something to fuel my reviews with. I got more notes out of this book than I get from most books many times the length. And I'm watching out for sculptures made from old paperbacks now...

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Darra W

      Darra W (edited)

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      I had forgotten about the word-frequency barometer. That was great! I always tease my husband about being such a linear thinker; sounds like something he'd come up with. But then, he can balance his checkbook in 30 seconds flat, while I...well, thank goodness for overdraft protection ;-)

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Laurie G
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    I tried, I could not get into this one. It reminded me of an italian on speed. ( I am siclian, so I'll say it).I will be reading his Italian Tales,it hasbeen on my TBR list for sometime. Sorry!

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    • Darra W
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      No apologies required ;-) Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, and I admire you for putting aside something that just wasn't doing it for you. I couldn't do that until about five years ago (in my 50s!), but then I realized, I was never going to read everything I wanted to in this lifetime, so why "block the queue" with a book that I just wasn't enjoying. I don't do it very often, but did so just recently. I started the second book in the Cairo Trilogy (we read the first book, "Palace Walk," earlier this year, and I loved it), and after 150 (of 425) pages, said "You know what?" and it went back to the library without a moment's guilt.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Marguerite M
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      I finished the trilogy and it left me blah. The first was sooo good and then the rest was well a bit down or something. Still very descriptive writing, but it just seemed to keep repeating the same ideas.

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    • Laurie G
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      I like the "queue" comment. I agree, if not into it, go on to next book.I have so many I want to read. I don't do that often either.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • James F
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    I loved this book. Reading is what I spend most of my time doing, so a novel about reading was a natural for me. The beginning was hilarious, I really thought he had me in mind as the "you" of the first chapter!

    I did have a couple problems; first, I couldn't find it in English, so I ended up reading it in Italian, and second, I don't know Italian. But this didn't turn out to be as much of a problem as I expected, and in fact I think I noticed some things that I wouldn't have if I hadn't been looking up words every few pages, such as the way he uses the same words literally in one story and then as metaphors in later stories. This is one of the many devices he uses to tie the stories together -- I think of this as a kind of "Novel in variations", almost like a musical form -- the stories (including the frame story) are each in a different style and yet they all have the same situation, a man, a woman he's interested in, and a mysterious threat hanging over them. And along the way, so many theories of the relationship between author, text and reader.

    I'm not familiar with much post-modernist literature -- I hope Amyra will make some suggestions, as I would like to read more of this type. (I admit I've been turned off to post-modernism in other areas, such as history and science, and especially politics, but it seems to be a positive thing in literature.)

    posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
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    • Marguerite M
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      James, I'm impressed. If I could not find it in English, I would not have tried it in another language. I thought it was very funny in the beginning. I got a little annoyed in the middled and then when I resigned myself to the fact that it was a story that wasn't a story I just enjoyed reading it.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Laurie G
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      James, I am impressed also. I know a teeny bit of italian,very teeny bit, and would never have attempted that!

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Darra W
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      Italian...and THIS novel? I am mightily impressed, James!
      I appreciate your comment describing "Winter's Night" as a "novel in variations." As I reached the middle chapters, I also began to notice the similarities (e.g., man, woman, threat) in the widely divergent stories, but had forgotten by the time I reached the end of the novel. Thanks for bringing this observation to light.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
  • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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    SPOILERS

    Incredible.

    I was deeply enthralled by this book. I was reluctant to start because the cover of my copy appears to be so dark and dreary. However, one of the posts on this group mentioned the humor.

    The book finally percolated up to the top of my TBR pile and I began. Laughed out loud during Chapter 1 when Calvino writes about how "you", The Reader, feel when you come into a book store. All those books! The burden! Exactly the way I always feel in a large bookstore, library, or working on the Shelfari catalog. All those books!

    Then the "story" begins at the train station. The way you are addressed by "I" made me immediately think of Pirandello. I was completely drawn in. From that point, I was looking for that suitcase. Were you?

    Each chapter (not the stories) resonated deeply with me. Each would bring certain "Aha!" moments making me think of situations about reading that I have encountered. The stories, themselves, were always good too. I found that to be incredible that I, as much as The Reader, became more and more despairing as, inevitably, the story would abruptly end. (I laughed out loud at the first abrupt ending, though.)

    Throughout the read, I was constantly challenged with the language - a dictionary had to be next to hand because I found so many words new to me.

    I mentioned Pirandello but "Carpet of Leaves" made me think of Anais Nin. The style of each story was both unique and, yet, had a common feel with all the others. I was truly impressed by that fact. I plan to go back and write some notes about each chapter. Some of the thoughts on censorship both amused me and make be reach for that nearby dictionary. Some of the academic scenes also made me laugh. Been there, done that with jealousies in academe.

    At the end, when The Reader is shown that all the titles read as a sentence together was very cool. I kinda wish I had not seen that in discussion before reading the book but, at the same time, I am trained to read a TOC first and to interpret the structure of a book before beginning the reading of it. I like to think that I would have come to that myself. The Reader, though, should also have noticed this when he wrote the list to begin with.

    No suitcase.

    Doubtless due to my own gender but the small epilogue meant little to me. The thread tying the whole thing together was Reader's search for the woman but, really, seems after a while as if any woman would do, didn't it? Could the whole thing be boiled down to cherchez la femme?

    I read almost constantly and have almost all my life. Finding something absolutely unique such as If On a Winter's Night a Traveler is a moment to be marked in a personal diary and on a calendar. This was a completely new reading experience for me. A very pleasant and enjoyable one! (Pynchon is unique, IMO, as well but enjoyable? Not in my world.)

    That being said, a unique experience by definition can not be replicated. Therefore, I am afraid to even open the other two Calvino tites that came in a boxed set with Traveler. Would I be expecting that same result? Is it possible to experience yet another unique novel from the same author? Isn't disappointment a foregone conclusion? Would that disappointment taint my first dearly held joy of Traveler?

    For Pete's sake... now I'm starting to sound like The Reader!

    DL

    posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
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    • Darra W
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      Dog Lover, I am so glad that you have posted...and such wonderful observations. Don't you love it one you find one of those "life-altering" reads? While it didn't have quite the same impact for me, I find myself still thinking about this book sometimes, and recently passed my copy along to a friend. I'll be interested to hear what she thinks about it when she has read it.

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
    • Dog Lover - very limited time online for the foreseeable future
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      This has happened three time to me today on Sheflari! I had posted a reply to your message, Darra, shortly after you posted it. Just checked back in and my reply is gone. Don't know what is going on today.

      Anyway, On another site, I have been intensely involved in discussions about what constitutes quality writing. There are those who maintain the position that grammar, story structure, spelling, etc. are arbitrary and subjective in nature and form a boundary against which art should not be constrained. The word "elitist" has been frequently used. All during this discussion, I kept remembering Traveler and snickering. What, I wondered, would have been the point in trying to track down the remainder of any of those novels if none has been so constrained. How would he have known when one started and ended anyway. LOL!

      I also kept remembering the first part of that scene in the publishers office where the manager was reciting boilerplate excuses to the writers about where their manuscripts could be.

      This book will remain with me for a very long time!

      DL

      posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
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