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  Chick-Fil-A and Gay Rights

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  Not sure how many of you know that I already am very biased against Chick-Fil-A because of an incident that happened a couple years ago. My son broke his arm falling off an illegally designed playground at a Chick-Fil-A. We had to sue them to get his medical expenses covered, in the process we found that the playgrounds they use nationwide do not meet the basic federal safety standards for childrens' playgrounds, yet they refuse to make modifications that would make them safer and prevent the many children every year from suffering from similar accidents. So I knew their whole "Christian Family Friendly" image was a scam used to dupe trusting American families into buying more chicken sandwiches.
  
  Then the truth of the owner's funding of anti gay restrictions, not just opposing gay marriage, which i understand comes from a deep seated bigotry or a fear of one's own "gayness" but Mr. Cathy also spent millions to support laws that prevent gays from teaching or adopting children and generally all things gay:
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-group-donations-_n_1644609.html
  
  I have begun to clean up my Facebook friends based on thier support of Chick-Fil-A's atrocious behavior. As an atheist recovering Christian who still appreciates the teachings of Jesus (along with other spiritual leaders), I find it especially troubling that folks who claim to follow Jesus verbatim would focus their energy on hating gays when his message never came close to mentioning gays, yet they tend to fumble at and stumble over the actual things he did take about, like taking care of the weak and the sick.
  
  Anyway, as I have a broad spectrum of friends here, I thought it would be great to hear what BTSers think about the issue. For me, it is the moral equivalent to standing against slavery or for a woman's right to vote. Neither effect me directly, but I believe all these issues effect all of us, as a society where all are not equal and equally free is a society where none of us are truly free.
  
  So jump in.

  uplandpoet started this discussion 10 months ago. ( reply | permalink )

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  mef 

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  I'm with you!

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  uplandpoet 

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  Thanks mef

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Marconi 

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  Is he refusiing to serve gays in his shop, or refusing to employ them? If not, you have no case. He can put his money wherever he likes.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

  show 1 reply

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    mef 

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    Yes, but Up isn't claiming they've done anything illegal, or that they should be prevented from using their money as they like by any legal or governmental means.

    He is free to question their ethics and believe them to be hypocrits, and to choose his FB friends by any means he likes!

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Riddley 

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  I think you're spot on with bigotry and fear being connected deep within. I find it difficult to accept that religions can espouse views that would be criminal were a secular group to espouse them. (In Ireland we have incitement to hatred laws) Any kind of discrimination which focusses on sexuality, race, gender or peoples physical looks or mental abilities is awful because, from a religious perspective, it is a rejection of God's work and from a secular perspective because it blames people for that over which they have no control.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  nina d 

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  Free speech issue. My only problem with it is that it is through a company, and unfortunately this country
  gives companies the same rights as people. I don't believe that this should be the case since companies
  cannot be punished like people are.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  TheLibrarian 

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  a related statement from one of the Wisconsin State Senators:

  "So wait- let me get this straight. Over 1000 people went to a fast food place to show how intolerant they are of other people's freedom to love and marry who they wish? And they did this for what they think is "freedom"? To be clear, if you're interpretation of "freedom" is taking away someone else's, you are on the wrong side of American history."

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Stu R 

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  Several mayors throughout the U.S. have stated that they will try to keep Chick-Fil-A out of their cities, including Thomas Menino (Boston), Rahm Emanuel (Chicago), and Edwin Lee (San Francisco). I used to live in New York City where Mayor Bloomberg supports same-sex marriage. He most certainly disagrees with Chick-Fil-A's President Dan Cathy's stance on gay rights, but he disagrees with using that as a reason to keep Chick-Fil-A out of their cities. "Trampling on the freedom to marry whoever you want is exactly the same as trampling on your freedom to open a store."

  In other words, if you don't agree with Dan Cathy's stance, don't buy his product. But to disallow him to run a business because of his personal prejudice? C'mon!

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    mef 

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    So far nobody here has suggested that these people be prevented from opening stores...

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Stu R 

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    Was just posting that others have.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Green Man 

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    Perhaps legally the two, freedom to marry and freedom to open a store are equal,, butn ot morally. One denies the equal humanity and legal status to other humans/citiizens the other is commercial issue of lesser moral value. In my not so humble opinion.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    mef 

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    Apologies, Stu, guess I was feeling over-protective. Sorry.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Stu R 

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    Fuhgeddaboudit! :)

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Marconi 

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  The trouble with having a policy of not talking to bigots is, they
  never get to hear your great arguments!

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Shawna D 

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  We can't control how people (or the people who run companies) spend their money, but we CAN control how we spend our own. If someone doesn't like how a company's finances are run, the only recourse is to NOT give that company your money. I always find it interesting when a company leader purposely comes out about something as controversial as this...it's just not business sense. Why ostrasize a huge portion of the buying public?

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Green Man (edited)

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  Gay marriage is a justice and moral issue, well I guess all justice issues are moral issues. the bible believers who tend to select “God's” family plan haven’t read their bibles too well. Many heroes of the Bible were adulterous, treated/believed their wives and daughters to be property etc etc. So their stand on this issue, and so many other stands the right wing “Christians” take is not biblical.....or just or moral, or acceptable or tolerable...but strangely enough it is legal.

  My friend Rev. Jasmine Beach-Ferrara 's piece “Chick-fil-A Is Not the Issue “ also on HuffingtonPost represents my position well. You might also check out the web site of Campaign for Southern Equality which she directs. It has an innovate approach to the gay marriage issue.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Beginnings (edited)

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  I have never been married -why would a person prefer to be married in the first place? I enjoy being me, myself and heterosexual never married I.:)

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    nina d 

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    there are financial reasons, especially concerning heath care.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings (edited)

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    Hi Nina,

    I imagine so-I just completed an advance directive this past week.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  uplandpoet 

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  thanks everyone! one of my biggest problems isnt that the owner of chick fil a doesnt support gay marriage. i disagree with him, but i understand, as the president himself put it, it is a bit of an evolution for some people. my issue is that he and others in the anti gay marriage crowd are satisfied to just oppose gay marriage, but they also support organizations that try to limit gays access to many other things, including life. note he is supporting focus on the family a group that claims to be christian, but spent a lot of time and money supporting a law in africa that made it illegal to be gay and made it not illegal to kill someone if they were gay.... if he and others want to campaign against gay marriage, fine, it is stupid and in the long run the human rights campaign will win, but in the meantime, if they support the murder of innocents, i will vigorously object to them.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Marconi 

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  UP got the moral high ground on that one!

  I wonder what advantages a legal marriage carry? lower taxes as a couple? visiting rights in hospital as a 'significant other' , surely these can be allowed for 'non-opposite' relationships too? I wonder what the state is doing in the business of 'marriage' anyway, if not organising these rights. Leave it to Churches to issue heavenly endorsements on relationships, and if your Church is not cooperating, then lobby or transfer.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings 

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    What about bisexuals? Rarely hear about bisexuals- I wonder why. It is almost as if they do not exist either as individuals or as a collective entity.

    posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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    uplandpoet 

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    well, bisexuals can already marry in a straight relationship, of course if they chose a gay lover, then they are back to where the rest of the gays are. i find that some bisexuals find their bisexualism an excuse for unfaithfulness. i dont buy that. straight and gay people make a commitment to one person, but that doesnt mean they are not still attracted to others, only that they value the relationship enough to not act on those attractions, seems the same rule would apply to bisexuals. in a serial fashion one might love people of different genders, but otherwise its called cheating.....

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings (edited)

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    Yes, perhaps a majority of people believe bisexuals are no good cheaters. Again the collective entity comes into discussion-for bisexuals the collective and individual may be a bit more differentiated. Aren't there quite a few well known writers who are/were bi-sexual?

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    uplandpoet 

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    bi sexuals dont have to cheat anymore than straights or gays do. and if the wanna go both ways, they can just not be in a committed relationship, god knows lots of gays and straights live that lifestyle, or they can have an open relationship, though that seems to work less than the folks who promote them would have you believe. my point is that having a relationship with one persona nd then saying, oh, but i am bisexual, so i need to have another partner is dishonest in a traditional relationship

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    mef 

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    A friend of mine came home after work one day to find that her long-term partner--who came from a family who had never accepted that their daughter/sister was a lesbian, and who had become severely disabled as the result of a sports injury that caused brain damage--was gone. The family had come and taken her and all her things while my friend was at work. She had no legal right to get her partner back -- this after having spent months going to the hospital after the accident (she sent me a photo of the pathetic little tree she had decorated in the patients' families' waiting room) and re-arranged her life so that she could work and take care of her partner, and figured that's what the future would be, and she was happy to do it. In sickness or in health, right? Except that they couldn't take vows -- this was about...er...15 years ago? Maybe more. So that was that.

    So there's a right that my husband and I have, that gay people don't have.

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings (edited)

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    I don't know Up-I can think of many traditional relationships which don't make sense-for me anyway.I know of a man who professed love for his wife and proceeded to tell me that although he loved her profoundly he found her physically repulsive. Maybe he was gay-this is what I told him-and he became very, very angry. I really don't understand why. How a person could profess profound wifely love and simultaneously be in a state of physical revulsion towards their wife is beyond me-I suppose there are all types of people to make the world go round.I certainly do agree with you about honesty being the foundation of a good relationship-although I do believe in a few white lies every now and then-I just can't help myself in this dept. I like to be generous with good thoughts and talk as it can steer a more dismal reality towards a brighter horizon.

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings (edited)

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    Hi Mef,

    Can't a person write out an advance directive?

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    mef 

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    Sure. I don't know about you, but when I was young and fit, I didn't have one. Maybe you did?

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Beginnings (edited)

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    Hi Mef,

    No I did not have an advance directive when I was younger-I did not even know what an A.D. was! I wonder why advance directives are not mentioned in high school/college life management classes. There are serious high school/college sports injuries and car accidents occurring during this time/age frame,not to mention my personal favorite-congenital heart disease-otherwise known as CHD.As there are quite a few 18 yr. olds and young people who are emancipated from their parents/guardians attending high school and college, the info. about advance directives might be very pertinent to managing their lives. Young gay/bisexual/ intersex/transgender YA might also especially benefit by knowing about the option of an advance directive-in order to close the gap left in their present state of marriageability.

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    uplandpoet 

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    well, now you have me on the same page. the guy must have been a creep, and yes a few white lies are a good thing, as long as they arent told to protect the liar, but the lied to.

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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  mef 

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  I feel sorry for the franchisees who don't share management's politics and might not have known their political stance when spending hard-earned money on buying a business. Saw one store owner today who was giving gay protesters free refreshments and had no problem with them being there...

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Stu R 

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  I lived most of my 63 years in New York City and I recall the racial divide that existed while growing up - whites were prejudiced against minorities and vice versa.
  
  Today, a tremendous improvement is evident compared to what had taken place in the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s, and gentrification has brought a renaissance to many neighborhoods once thought beyond hope. However, though the outward display of racism has decreased dramatically, the undercurrent of such intolerance still bubbles vigorously beneath the surface.

  For the past year I have lived in Brookfield, Wisconsin, a wonderful community where the air is fresh and the people naturally outgoing and friendly. Yet, just twenty-five miles distant, a man walked into a Sikh temple and killed seven people. An officer was also fired upon and he killed the perpetrator, thus eliminating any expectation of establishing a motive for this bloodshed - a most unwelcome reminder of the dangers inherent in bigotry, hatred, and intolerance.
  
  It is impossible to like everyone, but this incident is yet another wake-up call that we should like or dislike persons on an individual basis rather than as a collective entity.

  posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

  show 2 replies

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    nina d 

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    It can still be difficult in most places. Know of a lesbian couple working for a school district and unwilling
    to come out, afraid of what may happen to either one professionally. Another rural area where
    , among other prejudices, they still hold a grudge against 'yankees'. And of course the KKK still exists.

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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    uplandpoet 

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    http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/07/us/white-supremacist-groups/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    Currently, there are more than 1,000 hate groups in the United States, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    As we often see, the hate groups are a small minority, but it only takes one or a few persons to kill innocents

    posted 9 months ago. ( permalink )

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  Beginnings (edited)

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  Hi Up,

  We have two brand new fast food place being constructed near where I live -as we speak-one is a Chic-Fil-A. I am happy to be better informed about the values behind the chicken eatery-thank you-without you speaking UP and out I would have been ignorant. I have noticed that the Chic-Fil -A is being built alongside Lowes-which has also been publicly accused of certain types of prejudice. I live in a hardcore republican area-once known to be the base of operations and home to the dragon of the modern Klu Klux Klan-so I am not completely taken off guard. I hope your son's arm healed up properly and your family was justly compensated. Perhaps you've set a precedent Up, as I have also taken notice of playgrounds in the fast food eateries being either remodeled or taken out all together. Congrats on your bravery of action and research.

  posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

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