« more discussions

• 

  Email from my Christain friend

  Anyone have any idea how to respond?
  
  Hey Jane,
  I couldn't resist telling you what the "voice in my head" said to me this morning as I was listening to A New Earth.
  
  "Professing to be wise, they became fools"
  
  That is a scripture from the Bible - that relates to those people who know there is a God, but they create their own image of Him because they don't want to acknowledge Him for who He says He is. That's the category that I put Oprah in right now. I think she is creating her own God - and still saying she is a Christian - although she cannot be if she actually believes the things that she is pushing.
  
  Talk about taking God out of the box!! They have not only taken him out of the box they have done exactly what the scripture said they would do. "They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature (nature, the universe, Christ conscieousness, life, etc.) rather than the Creator."
  
  Yiks, the message of Echart sounds great, that's why so many people are eating it up. The funny thing is, the principles he is teaching come right out of the scripture and teachings of Jesus. The twist is, he leaves out our responsibility before the One who created it all.
  
  Rather than having a closed mind, I can tell you that I have a very open mind - but I don't just open it up to anything that comes along and sounds good. Not even if it works. And I KNOW what he is teaching works.
  
  You last email said that we are basically saying the same thing, only in different ways. Your message however leaves out the one thing that distinguishes true Christianity from all of the other philosophies. True Christianity says that man has sinned against a Holy God. The Eastern philosophies that are so popular don't see it that way, so they try to fix the basic problem of man with the idea that all we have to do is change the way we think, and it will change the way we are. Unfortunately, that might work to an extent, but even in the Eastern philosophies they have to pay the price in some way for the wrongs they have done (reincarnation, karma)
  The Christian doctrine (sorry to use such a definitive word) says that we don't have to pay the price for the wrong we have done - Christ paid that price for us. Too simple for some people to accept.
  
  I, like most people, have looked all over the place for the purpose and meaning of life. I didn't come to my conclusions our of fear, or some preacher shoving a message down my throat. I came to my conclusions by examining the many different philosophies out there. Bottom line, true Christianity is the only air tight answer that doesn't fall apart when taken to it's logical conclusion.

  bellazeal started this discussion 5 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  Kim-lost-in-a-book 

  I'm really hoping someone has a suggestion for you. I wouldn't know the first way to attempt a response to this. I will say that your friend sounds alot like many of the friends who have turned their backs on me since I've left the church. It's very sad really.

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  Karen 

  bellazeal,
  Since your friend's faith is based on beliefs that she holds as true and unrefutable, she isn't able to change. She believes as she does and doesn't want to change.
  The following quote from Don Miquel Ruiz's The Four Agreements Companion Book might help us understand her blind faith:
  "The great leaders of humanity [e.g. Jesus, Muhammad, Buddah, Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.] have a lot of personal power because they have great faith. But their faith comes from the heart, not the head. Their faith comes from love instead of fear, and from wisdom instead of knowledge. The kind of faith that comes from the head is blind faith because it comes from knowledge, from false beliefs, from fear. Blind faith is a faith that leads to frustration and dogmatism, which explains all the religious wars, all the fear that other people don't believe what we believe. Blind faith is a faith that we have to defend and impose on other people in order to feel validated and safe."
  On another vein though, if one has read A New Earth and watched the webcasts, he/she knows that Tolle's teaching (which are not a religion) are compatible with Jesus' teachings. He quotes Jesus in his book and explains (his interpretation)what He really meant. There is a thread in this group titled "Here is button 22's post on the Tolle thread at..." In it a Christian explains how the Trinity can be explained using Tolle's teachings.
  There is another thread in this group called "Student99's post at Oprah's site". In this thread a person who read Tolle and explained at an Oprah Tolle website how Tolle is not a threat to their Christianity.
  Rather than having to find both threads, I will copy and past them below this post so all will be in one place to peruse.
  

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  Karen 

  Button 22's Oprah site post:
  My Faith was strong, but now it is growing stronger and stronger every day. The words of the Bible are just jumping out at me, how could I have not seen them so clearly before? Like be still and know that I am... I will not leave you alone...I will always be with you...
  
  This book has put into words what I have always felt from within. As a Catholic, I can describe my faith very simply, it is based on the Holy Trinity, which is..." In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". That's it in a nutshell. The rest of the Bible is just the history lesson as to how all that came about.
  
  To say it another way, God Created the World, saw what a mess we were making..... sent his Son down to teach us how to live...then Jesus said when he knew he was going to have to leave us, "I will ask my Father, and he will give you another Advocate(The Holy Spirit) to be with you always, the Spirit of Truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it, because it remains in you, and will be in you" John 14:16
  
  And here it is again, John 14:26-27 "The Holy Spirit, that the Father will send in my name will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have told you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give it to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid."
  
  And you know what Oprah? I got it this time when I read it. I really got it. People wouldn't be so afraid, if they only knew that the energy flowing through their very being, which I choose to call the "Holy Spirit" is the most fabulous "Wireless Connection" to the most powerful source in the Universe, the God that created us!!!!
  
  May God Bless you and keep you safe in His Grace, you are truly one of his messengers of love.
  
  Joanie ,Long Beach, CA. (Life is a Gift, Live Everyday as a Thank-you Note!)

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  Karen 

  Student 99's Oprah site post:
  "I have seen many, many posts by concerned Christians wondering whether this book is a threat to their faith. As a Christian, I don't think it is, and here is why.
  
  
  
  Most Christians understand the concepts from the Bible of surrendering their lives to God, of living a loving life, and living in the peace that passes understanding. Christians can quote Jesus' sayings, such as "be perfect, as your father in heaven is perfect," or "judge (condemn) not, that you be not judged (condemned)," or "you must die to live," or "deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me."
  
  Unfortunately, not all Christians have succeeded in following up the talk with the walk. This is because these quotes point to an internal transformation, which some Christians have not yet fully experienced.
  
  
  
  That is why I strongly recommend this book. It provides very powerful tools for being able to successfully follow Jesus' teachings, rather than just quoting them. The book doesn't ask anyone to change their religion of choice, but it does help tremendously in successfully applying faith.
  
  
  In a nutshell the book shows how to apply forgiveness to every person, and every situation. It shows how to shine the light of awareness on our unconscious hatred of this moment, and thereby "overcome the cares of this world." If you want to go deeper than knowing about God, at the level of thoughts, and experience God at the level of knowing, I welcome you to join us in reading A New Earth."

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  bellazeal 

  Karen that was a great response, thanks - I have sent her both of those exerpts already, we've been in a conversation the whole time and she was listening to the webcast - more to argue with, not really letting it in, as you put it, "Faith in the head that needs to be defended.' That got it for me. I just had a hard time settling down with this conversation with her, because she was not being open, with her - hey I am listening to it, that means I am open, but she's not. I ma uncomfortable with "christians" and that makes me try too hard. I am letting this go now - Thanks again for the perspective.

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

  show 3 replies

  • 

    pampe 

    Bella, it so reminds me of my mantra, "fear and faith cannot inhabit the same space"
    
    I often wonder what they are so afraid of????

    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )

  • 

    bellazeal 

    I don't think of her as "they"
    that's why we keep perservering in our conversation. We really admire and respect each other and have come to a point where we are looking to understand each other. It's a process.

    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )

  • 

    Brazzonly 

    Sorry but I've jus joined and I felt that I had to comment. My culture is very religious and I have always felt disappointed that people have 'talked the talk' but not 'walked the walk'. I have always felt that the Church itself is a manmade institution and has suffered for it. In reading this book and I have rejuvenated my dormant faith and I have found myself going back to the biblical passages that seemed to resonate within me. One of my favourites says it all...... "the Kingdom of God is within you".

    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  bellazeal (edited)

  previously discussed friend sent me a funny thing today on a totally different subject
  
  Hi All,
  My New Theory On Global Warming:
  
  Forget carbon emissions as the cause of global warming!!
  
  There are approximately 2 million baby boomer women entering menopause annually.
  
  With intermittent body temperature fluctuations between 98.7 and 200 degrees within seconds, I estimate the earth's temperature is rising at an alarming rate.
  
  As we fan ourselves with the freezer door, the excess heat being emitted into the atmosphere is causing the polar ice caps to melt.
  
  The solution to global warming is not to sell carbon credits to those emitting excess carbon dioxide. The answer lies in creating a fashionable line of cooling space suits that menopausal females can purchase as part of their everyday wardrobe, which will both cool the internal body temperature and dissipate the excess heat inside the suit.
  
  As one of those females who is blessed with her own personal internal heat wave, I think this invention would be a hit with all of the menopausal baby boomer chicks, and at the same time it would save the polar bears on the North Pole.
  

  posted 4 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  miki k 

  maybe tell her you don't buy into the sin concept and let her then disasociate from you?

  posted 3 months ago. ( reply )

  show 1 reply

  • 

    bellazeal 

    Thank you miki k
    That is a real simplification of the topic, it is also close to the truth. I do not buy in to that thought form. I believe that we are basically good - trying to be anyway. I don't like to let a difference become a wedge, I needed help to put it in perspective -
    
    I just came back from vacation, where I visited a baptist church on Sunday. It was inspiring and enjoyable, the sermon was instructional and interesting. The people were friendly - I enjoyed it.
    
    The issue here was trying to figure out how to talk about differences in faith with people you love and respect with out insulting them or getting defensive. I try and hold our highest good in my heart, be patient and loving - that is what Christ had in mind.
    
    Sin is just a word that means without
    

    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  Karen 

  I keep thinking about this thread off an on.
  It is difficult to have a recpetive conversation on beliefs when one party is close minded because she feels her beliefs are the true thing and is always on the defensive.
  Perhaps, at some point, you could make these points which she might eventually internaliize, and then, start thinking for herself rather than blindly believing dogma:
  Buddha was never a Buddhist and Christ was never a Christian. Those religions started after they died.
  People claim that the Bible was divinely inspired and that may be so, but those writers who were perhaps inspired were also writing for the people who lived in the same era as they did not in today's world where we are realizing that to be Christ like (note the difference between being Christ like and being Christian) we can live in harmony with others' beliefs when those beliefs espouse love and helping others, etc. because today we have grown spiritually and realize that it is love expressed by helping others less fortunate not dogma that unites us.

  posted 3 months ago. ( reply )

  show 1 reply

  • 

    Karen 

    Another point is that the writers of different parts of the Bilbe at times contradict one another. Also, different Bible versions of the same writer have contradictions due to translation misinterpretations. The Bible should be considered a historical guide that is open to much interpretation.

    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )

• 

  bellazeal 

  Yes, Karen that's the way I get it too.
  
  What so inspired me at the baptist church was a sermon about the founding fathers and their intentions for this country. He pointed out that our country was based on a belief in it's people to be basically good and governed by their religion to adhere to the laws of this new country. They tried to give freedoms and in so doing gave us the responsibility to govern ourselves properly, he felt that our belief structures governed us and our government was structured for a people who had faith in god. He did it very well and didn't really hit the "C" word too much, it would have worked anywhere.
  He spoke thoughtfully and I didn't smell any dogma at all.
  plus they had great music.

  posted 3 months ago. ( reply )

• To reply to this discussion, please sign in or join now.

Return to top