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  Downtown Arthur

  What do we think of putting the Arthurian stories in a modern setting? Guy Gavrial Kay's Fionavar Tapestry plays with that idea a little, as does the children's book, "Winter of Magic's Return" and also Susan Cooper's "The Dark is Rising" sequence.
  
  Also, which Arthurian characters would you think would translate easiest into the modern world? Which change the most when so translated?

  Ondine started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  miles-dei 

  There are at least two other 'modern' Arthurian stories (both on our shelf) 'Avalon' by Stephen Lawhead and Forever King by Molly And Warren Murphy Cochran. I haven't read the last one so I can't judge. Lawhead introduces Arthur reborn and Merlin somehow still living, and as their foe Morgause, who is a bit of a disappointment. I'm not very much impressed with the book.
  Of course it's almost a necessity, he is the once and future king, isn't he? So Arthur is a must in any modern rendering, and Merlin as well I think.
  A few years ago, I seem to remember to have seen a book like that, but I can't remember title of author. But is was something like Merlin returning.

  posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  • 

    LizzieLizard 

    Deepak Chopra wrote a book with the return of Merlin premise, quite good actually.
    "The Return of Merlin."

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    "The Winter of Magic's Return" has Merlin aging, and then growing younger, bouncing back and forth between old age and babyhood through the centuries until Arthur returns (should he ever). Still, I'm not sure Merlin is the right character to be reset in a modern world. I guess an equivalent would be Mr. Coriander from "Die Unendliche Geschichte," but he was just part of the frame story. Also, Mr. Lyons from "The Dark is Rising" didn't really fit into society, almost as if that Gandalf-type character has become obsolete.
    
    I mean, what about the Arthur, Guenevere, Lancelot love triangle - a camelot-like society... the grail quest? Wouldn't something like that fit better?
    
    "Avalon" and "Forever King" will have to go on my "to read" list.

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  miles-dei 

  How about this take: NATO sets up a special intervention force, lead by a guy named Arther something (e.g. Stuart or Plantagenet), who is married to a Gwen a capable administrator. The force has its own applied research facility lead by a welsh scientist, doctor Emery (Emrys). One of the highest officers is a french guy surnamed Du Lac. Their first priority is to locate the source of some strange interventions in international affairs of a ghostly organisation header by a miss Morgan.
  Just some ideas. Got me rollin'

  posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    That's fabulous! That would work quite well. It needs a little something; the genders aren't separated the way they are in the romances. What if Gwen were a subordinate assimilated in a business takeover? That would bring her loyalties into question without making her subversive. Our Du Lac is an independent contractor, but he's a little green - hasn't been in the business for very long. He has a collection of oriental weapons hanging on the wall of his living room.
    
    Dr. Emery is another story. He is barely comprehensible to most of the others because of his thick accent, and Gwen is becoming concerned because of the amount of trust Arther places in him.
    
    What do you think?

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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    Tanis 

    That's a great start! Throw in an enstranged son, a few cases of mistaken identity, and an old woman who lives by a lake, and you'll have a fabulous story!

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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    miles-dei 

    How 'bout this: Gwen used to head an intelligence group which forced to join the special intervention group (code named Camelot). But after the join, Arthur and Gwen fall in love and marry.
    Du Lac joins the Camelot Force because he likes ideas on world peace Arthur has expressed during a conference in France.
    But Arthur has had a relation before this with Fay Morgan and a boy is born from that relation.

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

  • Ondine removed this reply 12 months ago.

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    Ondine 

    Et voila. We have our characters. What would a modern Grail look like? What would be Excaliber? The sheath? What about the sword in the stone? (how does Arthur become chosen).

    posted 12 months ago. ( reply )

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    miles-dei 

    I would like to have Excalibur as a sword. Perhaps Arthur should have to take it from a tomb (of the 'historical' Arthur?), his first mission? His success in that mission makes him the 'chosen one'.
    Having acquired this sword he starts training to use it, which gives him a certain edge in man-to-man combat...
    Just some thoughts.

    posted 12 months ago. ( reply )

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    Bart G 

    I would love to see a well-executed modern version of the Arthur legend. I'm not quite sure that having Excalibur still be a sword would work, though. In a modern setting, it seems a bit far-fetched that having the sword would confer any kind of real authority or combat ability (as in, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight"). I'll put some more thought into it and see what kind of ideas I can contribute, though.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    Think "highlander" and remember that the sheath supposedly made him invincible.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Bart G 

    I remember about the scabbard conferring invincibility, and I can accept that he demonstrated the qualities that make a great leader during the mission on which he retrieved the sword, so him wearing that as a reminder isn't as far-fetched as I had originially thought.
    I still don't know about it being that much use in actual modern-day combat, though. Sure, he might be invincible, but what about his team-mates? Plus, he'd still have to be using a gun himself, or he'd still be constantly at a disadvantage simply because his opponents would (if they were at all smart) keep their distance from him.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    What if he wore the scabbard (everyone thinks it's a reproduction) as an eccentricity but carried a standard 9mm Glock in a balancing side-holster?

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Bombadillo 

    How about Excalibur being a powerful computer program whose coding and encryption are only transparent to Arthur (either intuitively or through his advanced mathematical mindset) and thus only he can wield this powerful cyber weapon. If you are bringing Merlin along to the 21st century, he could have created the program, but perhaps has lost his grasp of the advanced mathematics required to understand it.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    I think that idea might possibly work, but would you really want to make Merlin such a fallible character? I think removing his influence over the program in that fashion might make him seem too doddering.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    miles-dei 

    I like that idea of a computer program - or perhaps a special kind of computer-prototype... Dr. Emery (Merlin) certainly is the creator. That could be his modern day magic. And I don't think he lost control. But he did create it especially for Arthur!

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    miles-dei 

    Using Excalibur as a very special purpose computer program might give a specific edge to the subversive organisation headed by miss (Fay) Morgan. It might consist of a group of hackers working to infiltrate governmental computersystems all over the world...

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Bart G 

    I really like the idea of Excalibur as a computer or program (depending on how 'cyber' we get with this), created by Merlin but with security protocols in place to only allow Arthur to use it, or something like that.

    posted 9 months ago. ( reply )

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  deepkimchee 

  Two more modern versions of Arthur to add to the list:
  
  Donald Barthelme's "The King" puts Arthur &c. in World War II Britain -- not exactly contemporary, but still fairly modern. It's been ages since I read it so I barely remember it, as I recall it wasn't my cup of tea, but it's a favorite among many Barthelme fans.
  
  Also, Leonard Wibberley who is best known as the author of "The Mouse That Roared" wrote a novel about Arthur's return to the present day (rather dated now, of course), called "The Quest of Excalibur." Again, it's been decades since I read it, but as I recall it was humorous and charming.
  
  

  posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    deepkimchee 

    Oh! and I almost forgot -- the famous occultist (and Glastonbury resident) Dion Fortune wrote a couple of novels that feature a witchy character who is really Morgan Le Fay working her magic in the present day (circa 1930s-1940s?) -- goes by the name of Vivien Le Fay Morgan or Lilith Le Fay. "Moon Magic" is the only one I've read, I keep telling myself I need to re-read it one of these days.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    That last one sounds terribly cliche.

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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    deepkimchee 

    My own memories of "Moon Magic" are very fuzzy, as I read it only once many years ago. But here is a more complete description of Dion Fortune's Arthurian novels from "The Encyclopedia of Fantasy" (edited by John Clute and John Grant):
    
    "Dion Fortune's last two novels, the Le Fay Morgan sequence -- THE SEA PRIESTESS (1938) and MOON MAGIC (1956) -- are an early attempt in popular fiction to depict a Goddess figure who is autonomous, not a consort or nagging shadow of a patriarchal God. A 20th-century worshipper, Miss Le Fay Morgan, a reincarnation of Morgan Le Fay, engages a half-willing male in a spiritual analogue of the Year-King ritual celebrated in Atlantis by followers of Ishtar."
    
    For 1938, that was pretty rad stuff! :)

    posted 10 months ago. ( reply )

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  Karen H 

  Amazing ideas! Has anyone read the Forever King Trilogy? Arthur as a young boy in modern setting, not quite the scope of your ideas, but interesting.

  posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    Although it's been written of so often, I still have difficulty imaginine Arthur as a child. I mean, even T.H. White had trouble imagining a little child growing up to be a cuckold.

    posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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    Karen H 

    Interesting thought, but was adultery viewed the same way in non christian-multi god religions? Possibly not, it is possible that it might have been overlooked more than not.

    posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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    Ondine 

    Cuckolding is more of a social thing than a religious thing, and frankly, all retellings of Arthur hold large amounts of anachronism. Try this: next time you see a ten-year-old boy, imagine him as a violent, balding forty-year-old with a straying wife.

    posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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    Karen H 

    Cuckolding is social, but some versions stress Christianity as the major religion of the time thus the adultery issue with the Queen. That was the direction my comments were going.
    As to the 10 year old as a violent 40 year old...ouch!

    posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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