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  • Larry K

    The Son of GOD

    Body of Divinity by John Gill

    Of The Distinct Personality, And Deity Of The Son



    That the Son of God is a person, and a divine person distinct from the Father and the Spirit, cannot be doubted; for since his Father is a person, and he is the "express image of his person,” he must be a person too; and he must be the express image of him, as he himself is a divine person, the Son of God, and truly God; and not as he is man and mediator; not as he is man, or as having an human nature, for his Father never had any, and therefore he could not be the image of him in that respect; for though man is the image of God as to some qualities in him, yet is he never called his character or express image, much less the express image of any of the persons in the Deity: nor as mediator, and in an office capacity, for his Father was never a mediator, nor in an office: it remains therefore that it must be the express image of his person, as he himself is a divine person, abstracted from any consideration of his human nature, and of his office. For as Plato says, that which is like must needs be of the same species with that to which it is like. The definition of a Person agrees with him: he is an individual, distinct, though not separate from the divine nature, he has in common with the Father and the Spirit; he subsists of himself in that nature distinctly, and independently; is not a part of another, the whole fulness of the Godhead dwells in him; nor is his human nature, which he assumed in time, a part of his person, nor adds anything to his personality; but being taken up into union with his person, subsists in it; he has life in himself, and is the living God; is intelligent, has understanding and will; knows himself, his Father and the Spirit, and all creatures and things, and does whatsoever he pleases.



    Besides the distinctive, relative property, or personal relation of the Son, which is to be begotten, and which gives and makes the distinction of him, as a divine person, from the Father and Spirit, who are never said to be begotten; there are many other things which show, or make him appear to be a distinct person.



    1. His being with God as the Word, [1] Joh 1:1 and with his Father as a Son, as one brought up with him, Pr 8:30 clearly expresses his distinct personality; he must be a person to be with, and to be brought up with another; and he must be distinct from him with whom he is; he cannot with any propriety be said to be with himself, or to be brought up with himself.



    2. His being set up from everlasting as mediator, and the covenant head of the elect; the Father making a covenant with him, and putting the persons of the chosen ones, with all the blessings of grace for them, into his hands, show him to be a person; a mere name and character could not be said to be set up, to be covenanted with, or to have persons and things committed to his care and charge; and these show him to be a distinct person from him who set him up, and entrusted him with all these persons and things; see Pr 8:23; Ps 89:3,28; De 33:3; Eph 1:3; 2Ti 1:9.



    3. His being sent in the fulness of time to be the Saviour of his people, and that under the character of the Son of God, shows him to be distinct from the Father, whose Son he is, and by whom he was sent; if he was not a person, but a mere name, he could not be sent; and he must be distinct from him that sent him; he that sends, and he that is sent, cannot be one and the same person; or else it must be said, that he sent himself, which is too gross and absurd to be admitted; see Ro 8:3; Ga 4:4; 1Jo 4:9,14.



    4. His becoming a sacrifice, and making satisfaction for the sins of men, and so the Redeemer and Saviour of them, plainly declare his distinct personality. Was he not a person, he could not offer himself a sacrifice, and he must be distinct from him to whom he offered himself; was he not a person, he could not make satisfaction, or reconcile men to God; or, in other words, make reconciliation and atonement for sin; these are personal acts, and he must be distinct from him to whom the satisfaction, reconciliation, and atonement are made; or to whom men are reconciled by him; if he has redeemed men to God by his blood, as he has, he must be a person that is the redeemer of men, and he must be distinct from him to whom he has redeemed them; for he cannot with propriety be said to reconcile and redeem them to himself; see Eph 5:2; Heb 9:14; Ro 5:10-11; Re 5:9.



    5. His ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God, show him to be a person that ascended, and is sat down; and though it was in human nature that he ascended and sat down, yet it was God in that nature "God is gone up with a shout,” Ps 47:1. "The Lord said to my Lord, sit on my right hand,” Ps 110:1 and he must be distinct from his God and our God, from his Father and our Father, to whom he ascended, and cannot be the same person with him at whose right hand he sits, Joh 20:17; Heb 1:13.



    6. His advocacy and intercession with his Father, is a plain proof of his distinct personality. He is said to be an "advocate with the Father,” 1Jo 2:1 and therefore must be a person to act the part of an advocate; and must be distinct from him with whom he advocates; unless it can be thought he is an advocate with himself; he himself says, "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,” meaning the Spirit of truth, as next explained, Joh 14:16-17. Now he must be distinct from the Father to whom he prays, for surely he cannot be supposed to pay to himself; and he must be distinct from the Spirit, for whom he prays. He appears in the presence of God for his people, and ever lives to make intercession for them, and must be a person to do this; and must be distinct from him in whose presence he appears, and to whom he makes intercession; for he cannot with any propriety he said to appear in his own presence for his people, and to mediate and make intercession for them with himself; see Heb 7:25; 9:24.



    7. His judging the world at the last day, with all the circumstances thereof; gathering all nations before him, dividing them, and setting them, some on his right hand and others on his left, and passing the definitive sentence on them, prove him to be a person, a divine person, and distinct from the Father and the Spirit; for as for "the Father, he judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment to the Son,” Joh 5:22 nor is ever the final judgment of the world ascribed to the Spitit; see Mt 25:31-41; Ac 10:42; 17:31.



    8. It is promised to the saints that they shall be with Christ, where he is; see him as he is, and behold his glory, and shall reign with him for evermore; and he is represented as the object of their praise, wonder, and worship, to all eternity; and that as distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost; all which, and much more, show him to be a person, and to be distinct from them both; for surely he must be a person, a divine and distinct one, whom the saints shall he, live and dwell with to all eternity; and whom they shall praise, serve, and adore throughout endless ages.



    The Deity of Christ may he next considered, and proved; or, that he is a divine Person, truly and properly God. Not a made or created God, as say the Arians. He was made flesh, and made of a woman; but not made God; for then he must make himself, which is absurd; since "without him was not anything made that was made; but all things were made by him,” Joh 1:3. Nor God by office, as say the Socinians; for then he would be God only in an improper sense; as magistrates are called gods; and not truly and properly God: nor God by name only; as there are called lords many, and gods many; such were the gods of the heathens, inanimate, irrational, lifeless beings, and so could have no divinity in them. But he is God by nature; as these were not; having the whole essence and nature of God in him. This will appear,



    1. First, From the names which are given to him; he has the same glorious names the most high God has; as Ejeh, I AM that I AM, Ex 3:14 to which our Lord refers, and takes to himself, Joh 8:58 and Jehovah, which is incommunicable to a creature, and peculiar to the most High, Ps 83:18 it is not given to angels; for wherever an angel is so called, not a created but the uncreated angel is meant; nor to the ark, 2Sa 6:2 for not the ark, but God, whose the ark was, is there called by the name of the Lord of hosts: nor to Jerusalem, Jer 33:16 but to the Messiah, Jer 23:6 for the words may be rendered, "This is the name wherewith he shall be called by her, the Lord our Righteousness": nor to the church absolutely, Eze 48:35 but in composition, or with addition; and is only symbolical of Jehovah’s presence being with her; and the same may be said of mount Moriah; and of some altars, called Jehovah-Jireh, Jehovah-Nissi, and Jehovah-Shalom; which are only symbolical, and designed to call to remembrance the wonderful appearance of Jehovah; the gracious help, and divine assistance, he granted to his people in those places, Ge 22:14; Ex 17:15; Jg 6:24 nor is this name given to priests and judges, De 19:17 for Jehovah is not to be explained by them; but is distinguished from them; and though he is joined with them, this only designs his presence in judiciary affairs, agreeable to Ps 82:1 if, therefore, it can be proved that the name Jehovah is given to Christ, it will prove him to be the most High over all the earth.



    Now we are told that God spake to Moses, and said, "I am the Lord,” or Jehovah; by which name he was not known to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; that is, not by that only, or that was not so fully made known to them, as it had been to Moses, and to the Israelites by him, Ex 6:2-3; 3:14 which person that appeared to Moses, and said those words, is called the Angel of the Lord, Ex 3:2 not a created angel, Ex 3:6 he, whom the Israelites tempted in the wilderness, is expressly called Jehovah, Ex 17:7 and nothing is more evident than that this Person was Christ, 1Co 10:9 he whom Isaiah saw on a throne, making a very magnificent appearance, is not only called Adonai, Isa 6:1 but by the seraphim, Jehovah, Isa 6:3 and so by Isaiah, Isa 6:5, who was bid to say to the Jews, Isa 6:8-9. "Hear ye indeed,” &c. which words Christ applies to himself; and observes that, "those things Isaiah said, when he saw his glory and spoke of him,” Joh 12:39,40-41. There is a prophecy in Isa 40:3. "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord,” or of Jehovah, "make straight in the desert, and high way for our God,” which, by the evangelist Matthew, is applied unto, and interpreted of John the Baptist, Mt 3:1-3 wherefore, the Jehovah, whose way he was to prepare, and our God, whose paths he was to make straight, could be no other than Christ; whose harbinger and forerunner John was, and whose way and paths were prepared and made straight by him, through his preaching the doctrine of repentance, administering the ordinance of baptism, and declaring the kingdom of heaven, or of the Messiah, was at hand. Moreover, the Messiah, or Christ, is expressly called, the Lord, or Jehovah, our righteousness, in Jer 23:6 it being his work, as Mediator, to bring in everlasting righteousness; and is the end of the law for it, and is made righteousness to everyone that believes. Once more, Jehovah promises to pour forth the Spirit of grace and supplication on some persons described in Zec 12:10 and then adds, "They shall look upon me,” Jehovah, "whom they have pierced;” which was fulfilled in Christ, when one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, Joh 19:34,37 the same words are referred to, and applied to Christ, Re 1:7. Now, since in these, and in many other places, Christ is intended by Jehovah, he must be truly and properly God, since this name is incommunicable to any other.



    It may be observed also, that in some places of scripture, Christ is absolutely called God; as in Ps 45:6. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever;” where he is distinguished from God his Father, Ps 45:7 and the words are expressly applied to him as the Son of God, Heb 1:8. "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God,” &c. yea, Christ calls himself God; as he well might, since he is in the form of God, and therefore thought it no robbery to be equal to him; saying, "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else; I have swore by myself,” &c. Isa 45:22-23 which last words, in connection with the other, are, by the apostle Paul, applied to Christ, Ro 14:10-12. The evangelist John, says of the Word, or Son of God, who was made flesh, and dwelt among men, and so cannot be understood of any but Christ, that "the Word was God,” Joh 1:1,14 and the same inspired writer observes, "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us,” 1Jo 3:16 from whence it follows, that he that laid down his life for men, which can only be said of Christ, and wherein his love to them appeared, must be God.



    And Christ is not only called God absolutely, but with some additional epithets, with possessive pronouns, as, our God, the Jews were waiting for, and John was the forerunner of, Isa 25:9; 40:3 "your God,” who should come when miracles would be wrought as proofs of it, Isa 35:4-5 "their God,” Lu 1:16 "my Lord, and my God,” by Thomas, Joh 20:28. Now though angels, magistrates, and judges, are called gods in an improper and metaphorical sense; yet never called our gods, your gods, &c. Christ is said to be Immanuel, God with us, God in our nature, that is, God manifest in the flesh, Mt 1:22; 1Ti 3:16. Some additional characters are given of Christ, when he is called God; which show him to be truly and properly God; as, "the mighty God,” in Isa 9:6 which is manifestly a prophecy of him; and who elsewhere is called the most Mighty, the Almighty, Ps 45:3; Re 1:8 and "over all" God blessed for ever,” Ro 9:5 over all creatures, angels and men, who are made by him; and he is blessed for ever in himself. He is called "the great God,” whose glorious appearing, and not the Father’s, saints are directed to look for; besides, this great God, is explained of Jesus Christ our Saviour in the next clause, Tit 2:13: compare with this Re 19:17 where he who is called the great God, is the mighty warrior, whose name is the Word of God, and King of kings, and Lord of lords, Re 19:11,13,16 Christ is also said to be the "living God,” Heb 3:12 for he only is spoken of in the context; and this is only said of the most high God; which distinguishes him from all other deities, Jer 10:10 and, to add no more, he is called, "the true God,” in opposition to all false and fictitious deities, 1Jo 5:20 for what is there said, is said expressly of the Son of God.



    2. Secondly, The Deity of Christ may be proved from the divine perfections he is possessed of; "for in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead,” Col 2:9 not one perfection of the divine nature excepted; or otherwise it could not be said, that all the fulness of Deity was in him. God is necessarily and self-existent, and independent on any; such is Christ, he is autoyeov, God of himself: as man and mediator he has a life given him for himself, and others, and lives by the Father; but, as God, he owes his life and being to none; it is not derived from another; he is over all, God blessed for ever. Eternity is a perfection of God; God is from everlasting to everlasting; Christ was not only before Abraham, but before Adam; and before any creature was in being; for he is the arch, the beginning, the first Cause of the creation of God, Re 3:14 the first born, or rather, the first parent and producer of every creature; as the word prwtotokov, by the removal of the accent, may be rendered which best agrees with the apostle’s reasoning in the next verse; where all things are said to be created by him; and therefore, as the apostle argues, he must be before all things, Col 1:15-17 as Mediator, he was set up from everlasting; his goings forth in the covenant were of old; the elect were chosen in him before the foundation of the world; and had grace given them in him, before that began; all which suppose his eternal existence. Hence he is called Alpha and Omega the first and the last, the beginning and the ending; which is, and was, and is to come; Melchizedek’s antitype, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, Re 1:8; Heb 7:3. Omnipresence, or immensity, is another perfection of Deity, Jer 23:23-24. Christ, as the Son of God, was in heaven, in the bosom of his Father; when, as the Son of man, he was here on earth, Joh 1:18; 3:13 which he could not be, if he was not omnipresent; nor could he make good his promises to his ministers, churches, and people, to be with them at all times, in all ages, and in all places, wherever they are, Mt 18:20; 28:20 nor walk in the midst of his golden candlesticks, the several churches, in different places; and fill all things and persons in them, as he certainly does, Re 1:13; Eph 4:10. Omniscience is another divine perfection, and most manifestly appears in Christ; he knew what was in man, and needed not that any should testify to him what was in man; he could tell the woman of Samaria all that ever she did; he knew from the beginning who would believe in him, and who would betray him; he knew the secret thoughts of the Scribes and Pharisees; and is that Word that is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart; and he will hereafter let all the world and churches know, that he searches the hearts and reins. In short, he knows all things, as Peter affirmed unto him, Joh 2:24-25; 4:29; 6:64; Mt 9:4; Heb 4:12; Re 2:23; Joh 21:17 and though he is said not to know the day of judgment, this is said of him as the Son of man, not as the Son of God, Mr 13:32. Omnipotence is a perfection that belongs to Christ, and is peculiar to God, who only can do all things; Christ is almighty, and his works declare it; the creation of all things, the sustentation of the universe, the redemption and preservation of his people, and the resurrection of them at the last day; all which are, "according to his mighty power, which is able to subdue all things to himself,” Php 3:21. To observe no more, immutability belongs solely to God; who is without any variableness or shadow of turning; and such is Christ, the same today, yesterday, and for ever, Heb 13:8 see Ps 102:26 compared with Heb 1:12 and since therefore such perfections of the Godhead are in Christ, he must be truly and properly God.



    3. Thirdly, The truth of Christ’s proper divinity may be proved from the works done by him; which are the same that are done by the Father; and in which he is a coefficient cause with him; and are done by him omoiwv, in like manner as by the Father, Joh 5:17,19 such as the creation of all things out of nothing; of the whole world and all things in it, visible or invisible, Joh 1:2-3; Col 1:16 the making of the worlds, the heaven and the earth, are particularly ascribed to the Word and Son of God; and he that built all things is God, Heb 11:3; 1:10; 3:4 the work of providence, the government of the world, and the disposing of all things in it, Christ is jointly concerned in with the Father; "My Father worketh hitherto; and I work,” that is, with him, Joh 5:17. Christ upholds all things by his power; bears up the pillars of the earth; and by him do all things consist, Heb 1:3; Col 1:17 the miracles Christ wrought on earth in human nature, as they were proofs of his Messiahship, so of his Deity; such as curing the lame, the blind, and dumb, and deaf, and even raising the dead, by a word speaking; which were what none but God could do: these prove that the Father was in him, and he in the Father, Mt 11:4-5; Joh 10:37-38. If he was not the mighty God, he could never have been able to have wrought and obtained the redemption and salvation of his people, by his own arm: what gave virtue and efficacy to his blood, to purchase his church and people, and cleanse them from their sins, is his Deity; and so to his righteousness, to make it a justifying one before God; and to his sacrifice, to make it expiatory of sin, and acceptable to God. The acts of forgiveness of sin, and justification from it, are peculiar to God. None can forgive sin but God; yet Christ has done it, and therefore must be God, Mr 2:7,9-10 it is God that justifies men from sin, and acquits them from condemnation, Ro 8:1,33 and so does Christ, Isa 53:11. The Resurrection of the dead is a work of almighty power, and which none but God can do; and yet Christ has raised himself from the dead, and thereby is declared to be the Son of God with power; that is, truly and properly God, Ro 1:4; Joh 2:19; 10:18 and he will raise all the dead at the last day, by his mighty power; and at his all commanding voice, the dead will come forth out of their graves, wherein they have lain, Joh 5:28-29; 1Th 4:16-17. The judgment of the world is committed to him; "The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment to the Son,” Joh 5:22. Now if he was not God omnipotent and omniscient he would never be able to do what he will do; gather all nations before him, separate them, and place them some on his right hand, and some on his left; bring to light the counsels of the heart, and judge the secrets of it, and give to every man for the deeds done in the body, whether good or evil; pronounce the several decisive sentences, and put them in execution, Mt 25:31-46; Ro 2:16; 1Co 4:5; 2Co 5:10.



    4. Fourthly, As a further proof of the Deity of Christ, the worship given him both by angels and men may be observed; for when he, God’s firstborn, was brought into the world, he said, "Let all the angels of God worship him,” Heb 1:6 which order to the celestial inhabitants, would never have been given, if he was not God: it is also the declared will of the divine Father of Christ, "that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father;” that is, worship him with the same divine worship; which he would never have declared, who will not give his glory to another besides himself, was not Christ his Son the one God with him; see Ps 2:12. Men are directed to exercise faith and hope on him; yea, Christ himself directs unto it, equally to be exercised on him, as on his Father; which he would never have done, but that he and his Father are one, one in nature, and so in power and glory, Joh 14:1; 10:30 yea, if he was not God, but a mere man, instead of men being blessed and happy, who make him their hope, and trust in him, they would be cursed for so doing, Jer 17:5,7. Baptism, a solemn ordinance of religious worship, is ordered to be administered in his name, equally as in the name of the Father, Mt 28:19 which, if a mere creature, would be idolatry and blasphemy; for which reason the apostle Paul was so cautious, lest any should think they were baptized by him in his own name, 1Co 1:13-15. Prayer, another branch of religious worship, is often made to Christ; and that not by a single person only, as by Stephen, in his last moments, Ac 7:59 but by whole churches and communities; who are said in every place to call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord; and how often are grace and peace wished for, by the apostles, as from God our Father, so from the Lord Jesus Christ? 1Co 1:2-3 all which would never be performed by saints, nor be admitted of by God, was not Christ truly and properly God; nor need we scruple to worship him, nor be fearful lest we should give him too much: and great encouragement we have to commit our souls, and the salvation of them into his hands, and trust him with our all; since he is God the only Saviour.

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    Larry K started this discussion 3 months ago. ( reply )

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  • Syed  M

    Syed M 

    Son of Who?

    Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a ‘son of God’ really make sense?

    What exactly does 'son of God' mean?

    Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?

    Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.

    Did Jesus, peace be upon him, tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?

    Let us find the answer to these and other important questions about the nature of Jesus of Christianity and Islam.

    "Look to the Books"

    To begin, let us do a sample comparison of the teachings of the Holy Books of Almighty God.

    QURAN OF ISLAM


    Surah 39:53 “Say: ‘Oh my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins, for he is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful’.”

    Also: Surah 4:110
    “If anyone does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah’s forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

    Surah 2:21
    “O you people! Adore your Guardian lord, who created you and those who came before you that you may become righteous.”

    Surah 58:22
    “You will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written faith in their hearts and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which rivers flow, to well therein (forever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.”

    New Testament of BIBLE


    Mark 6:10
    “Why do you call me good?” answered Jesus, “No-one is good but God alone!”

    Matthew 5:17
    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but rather to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until Heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until all things are accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever keeps the commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.”

    Matthew 7:21
    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the Will of the Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on the day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

    Some leaders claimed, “This probably refers to the Mormons or somebody else. Don’t worry about it.”

    Mark 1:35
    Gabriel says Jesus will be “called the son of God” and he would be “given the Throne of David” to “rule the House of Jacob forever.”

    Luke 3:36
    “Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God.”

    Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

    Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.

    “You say that I am.”


    Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to “son of God.”
    Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the “Son of God” in John 3:17

    John 5:24
    John 11:4
    John 11:27

    Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, “The Messiah, the Son of God”
    John 20:31 he is called “The Messiah, the Son of God.”

    But no verse makes the exact statement “Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God.”

    QURAN 4:171
    “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”

    Notice in the Bible, the frequent link between the position of Jesus, peace be upon him, as the Messiah and the ‘son-ship.’

    The term ‘son of god’ can not, in itself, be considered enough to declare anything unique about Jesus, peace be upon him, as this term is used for many people throughout the Old and the New Testament. See above: Luke 3:38

    Also, in Isaiah 62:8
    refers to the entire house of Israel as being, ‘Sons of God’.

    Romans 8:14 Paul tells us about those who are led by the spirit:
    “because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”

    The word “Messiah” is one that more particularly seems to represent the station of the person predicted to appear and lead the people to the victory over this world.

    Oxford Companion of the Bible states Jews prior to Jesus, peace be upon him, hoped for a prophesied ruler, reigning with everlasting justice, peace and security for the “Sons of Israel.”

    BIBLE
    Isaiah 11:1-5
    “A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The spirit of the Lord will be on him - the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of Knowledge and of the fear of the Lord - and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.”

    Jeremiah 33:14-20
    “The days are coming, declares the Lord, ‘When I will fulfill the gracious promise I made to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch sprout from David’s line; he will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.” For this is what the Lord says: ‘David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offering and to present sacrifices.”

    Ezekiel 37:24-28:
    “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. The will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them, it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.”

    Genesis 49:10
    “The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the rules staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.”

    Numbers 24:17
    “I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth. Edom will be conquered; Seir, his enemy, will conquered, but Israel will grow strong. A ruler will come out of Jacob and destroy the survivors of the city.”

    God Incarnate? NOT HERE

    BIBLE
    2 Samuel 7:12-15 Nathan the prophet (son of Solomon)
    “The Lord declares to you that the Lord Himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father and he will be my son. (New Testament book of Hebrews stops here)
    Samuel continues:
    “When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.”

    Hebrews 1:5
    “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.”

    Does this support the case the doctrine that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the ‘begotten Son of God?”

    Old Testament BIBLE
    Psalms 2:7 David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David’s relationship to God
    “I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, ‘you are my Son; this day have I begotten you.”

    Note: the New International Version says the verse could be translated either as “become your Father” or as “begotten you” into English or Greek.

    New Testament BIBLE
    Mark 1:35
    “He will be called the Son of God.”

    Note: This does not state he “is” the son, but rather, he will be “called” the son of God.

    Or was he the “one anointed to preach Good News to the poor.” prophesied by Isaiah, and the Messiah proclaimed by Gabriel, the followers of Jesus, peace be upon him, Jesus, himself and the remained of the New Testament, he evidently would not be God.

    New Testament BIBLE
    John 8:58
    “I tell you the truth’, Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was, I am!’”

    “I am” is the term used to identify God to Moses, peace be upon him.

    New Testament BIBLE
    John 3:16
    “For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whoever believed in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

    This does not actually define Jesus, peace be upon him, as God, or as the Messiah or as a Prophet.

    Note: This verse was actually modified by Jerome in the 4th century.

    ARIUS (Early history of the Church) a popular leader from Alexandria, Egypt.
    He argued, Jesus, peace be upon him, was created and not ‘begotten.’
    He was charged with heresy and his followers were horribly oppressed by the Church.

    After the matter was ‘decided’ and ‘confirmed’ by the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and in an effort to consolidate both beliefs, Jerome altered the original version of the Gospel of John 3:16 by changing the word ‘monogenes’ (unique) and substituted the word ‘ingenious’; meaning ‘only begotten.’

    What other ‘interpretations’ did the early Church Fathers invent to satisfy their claims of the divinity of Jesus, peace be upon him?

    Good question.

    New Testament BIBLE
    John 10:38 “But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may learn and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

    John 14:10 “Don’t you know that I am in the Father and that the Father is in me? The words that I say to you are not my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me who is doing this work.”

    But further reading in the very same chapter:
    John 14:20 “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”

    So how does he live in his disciples and how do they live in him? And if so, are they also, sons of God or Gods?

    Another good question.

    1st John 2:5-6 (This is an epistle [letter] written by another “John,” not John the Gospel er nor John the Baptist)
    “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in Him. Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.”

    Note: This indicates, living ‘in God’ means, ‘Obeying God’s commandments and following the Way of Jesus, peace be upon him.’

    Twice in the New Testament, Jesus, peace be upon him, tells his followers how to pray saying, “When you pray, say this…”
    And the words are very clear, ‘God’s Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.”

    BIBLE
    John 17:22-23
    “I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one; I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

    The word used throughout chapter 10 and 17, for unity or one was the same, ‘heis’ meaning the number one. There is another word ‘hen’ which means a unity of essence. However, ‘hen’ is nowhere to be found in these chapters.

    Note: Conclusion is this is a prayer from Jesus, peace be upon him, to God that all of his followers would have the same relationship that he (Jesus) had.

    Understanding the word ‘one’ meanings understanding the way in which it is being used. For example a man and a woman become ‘one’ when they marry; someone might say, ‘One hopes for success’ or ‘We are one in agreement.’

    Jesus, peace be upon him, is supposed to have said, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” In the very part of the Bible we find the verse wherein Jesus, peace be upon him, tells his followers, if they accepted a little child, then they also accepted Jesus, peace be upon him. Naturally, he did not mean the child was God or that he was a child.

    Christians are taught early in life, by doing good deeds and service for others, they are in fact allowing others to see Jesus in them.

    Why do we hold so tight to doctrines, even after realizing the incorrectness and false teachings?

    Yet another good question.

    The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus, peace be upon him, is a man, born of a woman without any father, strengthened by a Spirit from God (Gabriel), sent by God to teach the Children of Israel the true meaning of belief and proper actions (following the commandments) that God would accept from them and as such, their ‘road to salvation.’

    One more time:
    BIBLE
    John 1:1
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God at the beginning.”

    Jesus, peace be upon him, was the very “Word of God.”

    QURAN
    Surah 4:171
    “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not ‘trinity’: desist.

    It is difficult for us to admit that we have been deceived for so many years by some many people, some of them very near and dear to us. The truth is, ‘Someone has been lying to us’ - on purpose.

    It is also difficult to consider the consequences of loosing faith in the doctrine of the Church, out of fear of loosing faith in God altogether.

    But there is wonderful hope, Grace, Mercy and Salvation for those who come to the correct belief and obey the commandments.

    Wisdom or Word?

    Oxford Companion to the Bible
    The words “wisdom” and “word” were synonymous (exactly the same words) in Jewish thought at the time of Jesus.

    Old Testament BIBLE
    Proverbs 8:22-30
    “The lord brought me forth at the beginning of his work before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side.”

    Proverbs 3:19
    “By Wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.”

    APOCRYPHA (hidden books of the Bible)
    Wisdom 1 and Wisdom II
    Sirach (also called: “Ecclesiasticus”) written by Jesus ben Sira, a devout Jew of Jerusalem, 200 years before Christ.
    These texts were a part of the Bible until the time of the Calvinists and the Protestant Reformation (hence the word - protest).

    Scrolls found at Wadi Qumran and Masada confirm these were always a part of the ancient version of the Bible, but obviously not something Protestants wanted anything to do with.

    Wisdom states in Sirach 24:1-12
    “Wisdom praises herself, and tells of her glory in the midst of her people. In the assembly of the Most High she opens her mouth, and in the presence of his hosts she tells of her glory: ‘I came forth from the mouth of the Most High and covered the earth like a mist. I dwelt in the highest heavens, and my throne was in a pillar of a cloud. Alone I compassed the vault of heaven and traversed the depths of the abyss. Over waves of the sea, over all the earth, and over every people and nation I have held sway. Among all these I sought a resting place; in whose territory should I abide? Then the Creator of all things gave me a command, and my Creator chose the place for my tent. He said, ‘Make your dwelling in Jacob, and in Israel, receive your inheritance.’ Before the ages, in the beginning he created me, and for all the ages I shall not cease to be. In the holy tent I ministered before him, and so I was established in Zion. Thus in the beloved city he gave me a resting place, and in Jerusalem was my domain. I took root in an honored people, in the portion of the Lord his heritage.

    Wisdom of Solomon 7:25-27
    “For she is a breath of the power of God, and a pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty; therefore nothing evil gains entrance into her. For she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of His goodness. Although she is but one, she can do all things, and while remaining in herself, she renews all things; in every generation she passes into holy souls and makes them friends of God, and prophets.”

    Did the beginning of the Gospel of John indicate John believed the Spirit was sent by God to Jesus, peace be upon him, that it was the Spirit of Wisdom, Spirit of Prophecy, sent to all the prophets, with the same commandments and wisdom?

    Could the Spirit of Wisdom be with God since creation? Or perhaps the Spirit was the ‘Word of God’ that was uttered or breathed by God in the Beginning and then continued along with God in the rest of Creation?

    BIBLE APOCRAPHA
    Wisdom of Solomon 7:22
    “For wisdom, the Fashioner of all things, taught me.”

    Could the Spirit of Wisdom be the Holy Spirit that spoke to Mary about having her baby? And the same Holy Spirit that descending upon him at this baptism?

    BIBLE
    John 1:32
    “Then John gave this testimony: ‘I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit’.”


    All of this confirms without doubt the writers of the Old Testament and the New Testament were definitely on the lookout for a “Messiah” or “chosen leader of the way to salvation in this life and the next life.”

    The word in Hebrew for the ‘chosen one’ or ‘anointed one’ or ‘appointed one’ is ‘Messiah.’
    The word in Koine Greek for ‘Messiah’ is ‘Christos’ (became ‘Christ’).
    The word in Arabic for it is “Meshiha”

    Did Jesus, peace be upon him, ask people to pray to him, or to pray with him, to the God who sent him?

    Did Jesus, peace be upon him, claim to be God?

    Can the term "son of God" in English really present the meaning intended by the writers of the Bible?

    Now let us compare with compassion and wisdom in our hearts. Which of the two concepts make the most sense between Islam and Christianity when it comes to the subject of Jesus, peace be upon him?

    Let us compare the two and see what our wisdom and common sense tell us:

    According to the teachings of Islam in the Quran and the words of the last prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him, Jesus, the son of Mary, was predicted, he came to earth as a baby with a mother but no father, he did amazing miracles by the permission of Allah, including even bringing a dead man back to life; he did demonstrate for his followers the very best of behavior and obedience to the commandments of God. And according to the Bible he personally prayed and ask God Almighty to save him from the fate of going to the cross.

    The Bible indicates Jesus' prayers at Gethsemane went unanswered, even though he stayed up through the night crying and asking God, "Let this cup pass from me, even so, Your will be done."

    Yet, according to Quran, Almighty God did answer his prayers. He did not go to the cross, but rather the likeness of him was put on another person who did go to the cross and Almighty God, caused Jesus, peace be upon him, to be saved, protected and he is with God and will return in the Last Days to lead the true believers to victory over the evil ones.

    Some have even speculated the one on the cross was the very one (Judas Thomas Iscariot) who sold out Jesus and his followers for thirty pieces of sliver.




    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    show 4 replies
    • Larry K

      Larry K 

      Syed M said:
      Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a ‘son of God’ really make sense?
      ===
      This is similar to the question Satan asked in the Garden of Eden. Yeah, hath God said....

      The real question is not does it make sense but does God say it is so? YES!


      Acts 13:32-33
      32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
      33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
      (KJV)
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • Larry K

      Larry K 

      Syed M said:
      What exactly does 'son of God' mean?
      ===
      This is why I posted Dr. John Gill's remarks on this question in the first place. The long and the short of it is Christ is the eternal second person of the Godhead and He became incarnate to accomplish the eternal purpose of God's grace in elective love. He is the only mediator between God and man.

      1 Tim 2:5
      5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
      (KJV)

      =================================================
      Syed M said:
      Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?
      ===
      Yes! This is the ONLY way to have salvation. We cannot be saved by our works. We must have works that exceed the works of the best of the Pharrisees. Actually, we need the perfect work of God and that is what is given to us in Christ when we have Him as our Savior.

      Eph 2:8-9
      8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.(KJV)
      ================================================
      Syed M said:
      Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.
      ===
      This question is not clear but God has need of nothing. It is YOU and I who are in need. We can try and try with all our being to do right in the sight of God but even our best can never satisfy because we are sinners in the first place. God did not make us this way; we made ourselves this way in our father Adam and now all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags to Him. That is why Christ died the death that He die and then arose from the grave so that we might stand before God in Him and His (divine) imputed righteousness.

      Isa 64:6
      6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.(KJV)

      Rom 4:5-8
      5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
      6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
      7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
      8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
      (KJV)
      ==============================================
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • Larry K

      Larry K 

      Syed M said:
      Did Jesus, peace be upon him, tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?
      ===
      The main message of Christ was repent. That is, turn from your sin and believe God. God never has to try and prove His existance to us. He is the eternal I AM. Like jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Most religionists in the world do not know who or what they worship. The unsaved Jews in Christ's day wanted to kill Him because they knew that He was claiming divinity. And Jesus said YOU will die in your sin if you do not believe in His divinity.

      Matt 4:17
      17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.(KJV)

      John 8:24
      24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.(KJV)


      John 10:31-33
      31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
      32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
      33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.(KJV)
      ==================================================
      Syed M said:
      Let us find the answer to these and other important questions about the nature of Jesus of Christianity and Islam. "Look to the Books" To begin, let us do a sample comparison of the teachings of the Holy Books of Almighty God.
      QURAN OF ISLAM
      ===
      These Questions have *all* been answered on THIS forum and also many times in ancient history as well. The only "Books" that are recognized as divinely inspired scripture are the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament. The Quran of Islam has never been validated as the inspired word of God. Man made religions like to start by saying like Mohamad and many others did, that God has spoken to me and this is what He said... but none of the man made religions can compare to what God has said and done in validated scripture.

      Rev 22:18
      18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:(KJV)
      ================================================
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • Larry K

      Larry K (edited)

      this post was accidently placed in the wrong spot and has now been relocated.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • Syed  M

    Syed M 

    "And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-Maa'idah- 5:116)
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • Syed  M

    Syed M (edited)

    John 14:9 Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.
    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life.
    John 8:12 I am the light of the world.
    John 8:58 Before Abraham was, I am.
    John 10:7 I am the door of the sheep.
    John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and the life.
    John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life.
    John 15:1 I am the true vine.

    Christian scholars tell us that if Jesus had made all these fantastic claims about himself, the first three gospels would surely have recorded them. Mark was written around 70 C.E., followed by Matthew and Luke somewhere between 80-90 C.E. John, written around 100 C.E., was the last of the four canonized gospels. The Christian scholar James Dunn writes in his book The Evidence for Jesus:

    "If they were part of the original words of Jesus himself, how could it be that only John picked them up and none of the others? Call it scholarly skepticism if you like, but I find it almost incredible that such sayings should have been neglected had they been known as a feature of Jesus' teaching. If the 'I ams' had been part of the original tradition, it is very hard indeed to explain why none of the other three evangelists made use of them." (The Evidence for Jesus, p. 36)

    Similarly, the New American Bible tells us in its introduction, under the heading How to Read Your Bible:

    "It is difficult to know whether the words or sayings attributed to Jesus are written exactly as he spoke them. . . . The Church was so firmly convinced that . . . Jesus . . . taught through her, that she expressed her teaching in the form of Jesus' sayings." (St. Joseph Medium Size Edition, p.23)

    What we have in John, then is what people were saying about Jesus at the time John was written (about 70 years after Jesus was raised up). The writer of John simply expressed those ideas as if Jesus had said them. Rev. James Dunn says further in his book that, almost certainly, the writer of the fourth gospel "was not concerned with the sort of questions which trouble some Christians today -- Did Jesus actually say this? Did he use these precise words? and so on." (The Evidence for Jesus, p. 43)

    Scholars have concluded that this gospel was originally written in a simple form. But this gospel was later on, as the New Jerusalem Bible says, "amplified and developed in several stages during the second half of the first century." (The New Jerusalem Bible: Introduction to John, p. 1742)

    It says further:

    "It is today freely accepted that the fourth Gospel underwent a complex development before it reached its final form." (p. 1742)

    On a previous page, the same Bible says:

    "It would seem that we have only the end-stage of a slow process that has brought together not only component parts of different ages, but also corrections, additions and sometimes even more than one revision of the same discourse." (The New Jerusalem Bible, p. 1739)

    The New American Bible says that most scholars "have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were added to a shorter original." (The New American Bible, Revised New Testament, p. 143)

    God Reveals the Truth About Jesus

    O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" -- Cease! (it is) better for you! -- Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

    The Messiah will not scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him:

    Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He pay their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, them will He punish with a painful doom.

    And they will not find for them, against Allah, any protecting friend or helper.
    O mankind! Now hath a proof from your Lord come unto you, and We have sent down unto you a clear light;
    As for those who believe in Allah, and hold fast unto Him, them He will cause to enter into His mercy and grace, and He will guide them unto Him by a straight road.

    (The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an: 4:171-176)

    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    show 3 replies
    • Larry K

      Larry K 

      It is true that the Gospel of John portrays the life of Christ from a different view point than the synoptic gospels. As a matter of fact, All of the four Gospels present the story of Christ from an angle of their own. That does nothing to detract from the fact that each one is the inspired word of God with no mixture of error what so ever. Matthew tells the story from a Jewish point of view and especially wanted to emphasize the fact tha Christ was the fufilment of Old Testament scripture that pointed to the coming of the Messiah. Mark tells the story of Christ with the intent to show the wonders of Christ as the obedient servant. Luke the physician brings out especially the humanity of Christ and His compassion for us. John on the other hand brings out His diety and Kingship. No problem. These and all the rest of the 27 books of the New Testament have been scrutized and raked over the coals by every naysayer the world could muster but they all still stand tall as the divinely inspred word of God. That can not be said about what certain scibes wrote in the 7th century about things they heard from a fellow who claimed that the angel Gabriel told to him the sum of the matter when it comes to God. There is no reason to believe this latter stuff what so ever.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • Syed  M

      Syed M 

      Dear Larrry

      As you said that 4 gospels present the story of christ from different angle but they are the true words of God.


      The Jehovah’s Witnesses in their “AWAKE” Magazine dated 8th September 1957 published the following headline: “50,000 Errors in the Bible” wherein they say “..there are probably 50,000 errors in the Bible...errors which have crept into the Bible text...50,000 such serious errors...” After all of this, however, they go on to say: “...as a whole the Bible is accurate.” Let us have a look at only a very few of these errors. (part2)

      http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/584/


      and have a look at this link (bible contradictions) plus more

      http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • Larry K

      Larry K 

      Dear Syed M,
      Maybe you do not know this but the so-called "Jehovah Witness" group is not recognized as a Christian organization. They are known as a cult and their "Watch Tower Society" is famous for publishing anti-Christian material. I do not give any more stock to their arianism than I do the similar stuff that I have seen from some of the followers of Muhammad on this foum.
      I have more than one book full of aledged "contradictions" in the Bible by various different athiests, agnostics, and other unbelievers but all attacks against the Bible have been answered to my personal satsfaction. Thank you. I am presently studying about allah and the origin of the quran and many red flags are popping up that say "warning" this is a problem. Perhaps I can talk about some of them at another time. Someone asked me today if I had read the book of Mormon. They said it was like the Bible. I had to tell them yes I have skimmed the book of Mormon but saw it only as a book of fantacy that belongs on the fiction shelf . At the risk of soundng repetitive I must say again that the only scripture I see as the divinely inspired word of God is the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament. AMEN.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
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