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  Teaching Dune

  Hello out there in cyber-land,
  
  I'm an English Teacher in Australia and down here, Dune is one of the teaching options we have for our Higher School Certificate (the equivalent of a leaving exam? SAT? The big ones at the end of school.) It is in a unit called Speculative fiction alongside the first Lord of the Rings film and Margaret Atwood's novel 'The Handmaid's Tale'. Students also have to choose 2 speculative texts of their own to discuss in relation to these 3.
  
  It is an excellent novel through which to discuss the similarities between Fantasy and Science Fiction. Heck, its an excellent novel, full stop. But what I'm interested in is:
  
  What people think are the main themes and ideas in Dune?
  What does it 'teach' us?
  How do you think it relates to other scifi/fantasy novels?
  What other texts do you think are important/related to Dune?
  
  Give me your ideas, people. I'd love to get the opinions of some people who aren't in my classroom...
  
  Cheers,
  
  DocBB

  DocBruceBanner started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  srinivasa rao 

  What people think are the main themes and ideas in Dune?
  Religion, genetics and evolution, prediction of the future and the consequences
  What does it 'teach' us?
  About the good and bad aspects of religion
  How do you think it relates to other scifi/fantasy novels?
  I guess it shows how good the older science fiction with all the "outdated" science can still make us think and how it still ranks up there among the top scifi/fantasy literature, and how philosophy can make a good backbone for a story.
  What other texts do you think are important/related to Dune?
  How Frank Herbert hit upon the whole Dune idea could be interesting, as detailed in The Road to Dune... the whole story about how he read an ecology article about how deserts expand by shifting of sand dunes.

  posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  Nicholas K (edited)

  I don't have a very specific answer to each of your questions, but in a nutshell, I think Dune is a very well researched and one of the very rare books in the Sci-Fi genre that doesn't put fantastic technology up-front.
  
  Due to the depth and length of the series (not counting the Brian Herbert novels), we can clearly see that the main themes and idea in the series are Religion, Politics, and Socio-Economics. We have the quasi-religious groups of the Bene Gesserit (as a "sisterhood", and their creation of the Kwisatz Haderach somehow strikes me judeo-christian in natur), the Bene Teilax (all males, The Prophet - islamic "roots"?), and the political maneuvering between the (earlier) Houses and (later) factions, all tied into an economic web consisting of (earlier) Spice and (later) religion/power to rule.
  
  If it wasn't for the fact that it's set in the future, we can pretty much see contemporary equivalents in the storyline and themes. That this was written almost 40+ years ago proves how ingrained the selected themes (and the latter day equivalents) that Frank Herbert has woven into the Dune universe prevails even to this day.

  posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  Alina B 

  Themes? To my mind, one big theme was legacy - what people THINk they leave behind and what they ACTUALLY do leave behind, the continous struggle between these two forces.
  Another theme seemed to be the relationship between parents and children. In the Atreides family, the offsprings tend to annul their father's work for different reasons each.
  Last but not least, there is an importans part of philosophy there, zen or otherwise.It is true I skipped it on my first read but what a joy it is to re-discover it again and again.
  
  What does it 'teach' us?
  Well, I don't think it is an educational epic in the way the old ones were, and I don't think we should derive principles to live by from these. I didn't read it because it could teach me sth., I read it because it set my mind to such a work that even today, 12 years later from my first encounter with Dune, I still find new things to think about in it, I still discover new sources of inspiration in it.
  
  How do you think it relates to other scifi/fantasy novels?
  To be honest, I tried to read other SF novels and I gave up. Maybe I'm too much accostumed to Herbert's world, to enjoy others. For instance, I tried to read 'Vurt' by Jeff Noon. It's not that it's bad, far from it, it is just... not my thing.
  What other texts do you think are important/related to Dune?
  I think it would be interesting to see how arab texts, philosophy and especially poetry relates to the culture of the fremens, particularly in the first few books, where they are still a people in their own right.
  
  I envy your kids with such a reading list. My class still has to deal with classics they DO NOT relate to, whose language they do not understand and a sensibility that seems outdated to their young 'modern' minds.

  posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

  show 2 replies

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    DocBruceBanner 

    Thanks, everyone - some really interesting takes on Dune here. I think I should clarify a few things and let you know where I stand on it all. First, I think that it is very narrow to consider a novel in terms of its 'themes' - Dune has so many themes and recurring ideas that it is ridiculous to try and pick less than about 10. The list I distribute to my students is:
    
    Coming of Age
    Heroism
    Villainy
    The Nature of Humanity
    Genetics
    Politics and Power
    Religion
    Betrayal
    Ecology (probably the main theme, if there were such a thing)
    Drug Use
    Prophecy and Vision
    Cultural Clash
    
    Dune is an epic, probably the best science fantasy novel ever written if not simply one of the greatest novels ever written. It would be unusual for such a book not to cover an enormous range of themes and ideas.
    
    What does it teach us? This is an unusual question and perhaps I could have better phrased it as 'What does it value'? The answer for me is that Dune tries to teach us the value of self-sufficiency. It reminds us that in the end we are all alone and can only rely on one person. Not even those we love are assuredly there when we want them to be. Dichotomously, Dune also teaches the value of community - without the Fremen, Arrakis is useless to empire. Without each other (and each other's water, as elegantly demonstrated by Jamis), the Fremen cannot survive. The unity that Paul brings to the planet, though created by force, is a social necessity without which Dune would continue to deteriorate.
    How does it relate to other Speculative Fiction? I can draw connections, either thematic or character-based, between Dune and almost anything else in the genre. It is a story that uses Jungian archetypes and the Hero's Journey model. It is a veiled metaphor for Cold War era America, Russia and the Middle East. It is a comment on humanity and the moments that define us. It is Science fiction and pure fantasy at once. It connects to the bible, the koran, the qabbalah and the teachings of buddha. Simply put, everyone who reads Dune can find something of themselves in it. It blows Lord of the Rings out of the water and leaves Star Wars for dead. Anyone who is serious about Speculative Fiction should know this book.
    
    And Alina, I only wish that more students had the chance to actually study these sorts of texts. Our curriculum here is quite progressive and under tremendous threat from the conservatives of our nation, who seem to control the media at the moment. That said, what classics can't your kids connect with? Surely there's a reason that they're considered classic??
    
    Please, continue to give me your thoughts on teaching Dune...

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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    benjamin p 

    An excellent idea to teach in lieu of events today.
    I found it fascinating how Herbert chose the Islamic conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries CE as foundation material and the idea of ""Jihad".
    Also the idea that despite good and pure intentions, time has a way of making things go awry, especially where our species is concerned. Power corrupts as the saying goes and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Paul Atireides (Mua'dib) wanted to set mankind on a path where it could save itself from self destruction. Isn't that the object of all religions ? Yet, as we have found out, words are subject to varied interpretations, greed subverts, and all goes to hell in a handbasket. Men (and women)change, adapt and survive, but what they originally were is like us, lost in the mists of time.
    I believe Herbert meant for us to see these shortcomings and maybe, like Mua'dib, figure a way we can save ourselves. It would take a lot of indocrination, but there is the rub and end cycle. We, being men, would have disagreements and thereby, it goes round and round again.
    Sorry for the digression, Keep on teaching this excellent work.
    

    posted 1 year ago. ( reply )

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  Daniel R (edited)

  Related to Dune, i would recommend you visit Dune's Wikipedia page, because it answers all your questions in rich detail... besides the summarized plot, the analysis there is of good quality and it gives information related to themes used, sources that inspired Frank Herbert (very important because they appear in Dune in high detail) and the ideas mentioned in the novel.

  I would've copy-pasted the information there, but since it is not my own, it wouldn't be right :).

  posted 6 months ago. ( reply )

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  Kara P 

  What people think are the main themes and ideas in Dune?

  i think Herbert reinvents the idea of prescience as well as what it means to be a messiah and godhead. eugenics is a theme, prophesy, hydraulic despotism, addiction, socio-economices, love and loyalty, ecology, religion and manipulation thereof...

  What does it 'teach' us?

  problems with and the power of religion, convention, and government and historical particulars that shape the past, present, and future. i think it teaches about cross-cultural understanding and the power of mythology. it has a lot to say about ecology in general as well as cultural ecology.

  How do you think it relates to other scifi/fantasy novels?

  it's one of the progenitors of many sci fi/fantasy... memes for lack of a better word at the moment.

  What other texts do you think are important/related to Dune?

  like the 5 other books? :P

  how about religious texts? treatises on government? desert ecology publications? definitely a bit of sociology/anthropology, history, a bit of economics... stuff like that.

  posted 5 months ago. ( reply )

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  D. Williams 

  The book taught ideas of family and the human struggle, including the idea that man will keep the same ideals that we haved used since the beginning of time.
  And we can become way to addicted to a substance. And that the ideas of religion can span thousands of years, and that we can lose ourselves in addiction. It compares to the ideas of good and evil. All books and ideas related to religion, reading and arithmetic and any books related to the subjects involved woth education.

  posted 3 weeks ago. ( reply )

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