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  Bookswap 2012 - Il'ja & Gertrude

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  Now I regret that I suggested leaving the non-english language reads out, that means I can’t recommend Borges or Juan Rulfo for the swap. Anyway, Rise is the man for that; he’ll know where to find the best translations for these two brilliant authors.

  Louisa van der Luyden started this discussion 1 year ago. ( reply | permalink )

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  Louisa van der Luyden (edited)

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  So we are stuck with English Only, and I see that when it comes to American Literature, you are far ahead of me; it would be odd for me to be recommending anything American to you. That basically leaves us with British reads. So here we go.

  In the modern literature genre, I would recommend Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell. I see you have read his Black Swan Green, but I think Cloud Atlas is his best achievement so far.

  From the classics, I would suggest King Solomon's Mines by H. Rider Haggard, and Moon and Sixpence by Somerset Maugham. Both are available on Gutenberg, so you'll have no excuse. King Solomon's Mines is a thrilling adventure tale set in the African wilderness which will have you on the edge of your seat. Moon and Sixpence is an interesting life story, loosely based on the life of Paul Gauguin, which will make you want to pick up a paintbrush and start painting masterpieces if by chance you have no tendencies in that area yet.

  If you are in the mood for a detective story, I wholeheartedly recommend Woman in White by Wilkie Collins. We had a WiW group read here on BBD but only a few of us read it, which is a pity because it is well worth reading. And if you haven't read the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, you really should. They are truly wonderful, each and every one of them.

  From the non-fiction genre (and I secretly hope you will go for this!), I can highly recommend Last Chance to See by Douglas Adams and Measuring the World by Daniel Kehlmann. Both have a very high entertainment value, and I don't see how anyone could not love reading these. Measuring the World was actually written in German, but I have read the English translation (by Carol Brown Janeway) which reads beautifully.

  EDIT: My mistake, Measuring the World is actually semi-fictional, but I am keeping it there for want of a better categorisation.

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Now I realise this is a quite a list. I could narrow it down for you, but let me know which of these titles are within your reach.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Il'ja 

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  Just a note to say - Cloud Atlas, King Solomon's Mines, Moon and Sixpence, Woman in White, Last Chance to See, and Measuring the World - I've got them all. The challenge will be to put them in an order. Start easy? Start difficult? Stretch it out into the summer? Read them all now? So many decisions: I need to lie down.

  Better idea: If you hear some rustling around, huffing, and occasional sneezing, it means I'm in your shelves.

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Well, take your time and read what interests you - there is no time limit here. Cloud Atlas is quite thick (my edition has 544 pages) and requires concentration. The others are thinly - and pageturners, I would say.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Il'ja (edited)

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  I'm here to drag you back to the colonies, both East and West. We are going where there are no villas, no characters capable of rolling a British "r", and Europe...true Europe...is less a continent than a curse word.

  First to Russia:
  Maxim Gorky's "My Childhood". This can be a tough - in the sense of 'brutal' - read, but it's influence in Russian lit is immense. The opening is just...
  Anna Akhmatova - "Poems of Akhmatova". I recommend the Max Hayward/Stanley Kunitz translation. Their selection is balanced and Akhmatova's remarkable voice is preserved for those without Russian. This is a bi-lingual edition, which might interest you.

  On to Turkey:
  Yashar Kemal - "They Burn the Thistles". The oral tradition echoes through this stunning, epic, exotic adventure. Hypnotic.

  And next, the Americas:
  Marilynne Robinson - "Housekeeping". Her first novel and it is filled with - and I use these words advisedly - the spirit and lack of propriety that distinguishes, and often elevates, America.
  Leif Enger - "So Brave, Young, and Handsome". This is not a great book, but it is such a good, kind book. A story.

  And, in a ham-handed mercy to restore to you your sense of place, Eastern Europe (though citizens of Prague insist they live in "Central" Europe", hah):
  Ivan Klima - "The Ultimate Intimacy". Love, God, Adultery, Existential Angst and we are definitely back in Europe. Klima is, simply, a superior writer to Kundera. (OK, that's what I think anyway.) He shows a spiritual side of the continent in a gloomy, though honest, read.

  If any or all of these prove hard to find...I've got a "B" list ready...let me know how it goes.

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    Rise 

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    Have you read "Memed, the Hawk" by Kemal? I read somewhere that "They Burn the Thistles" is a sequel to it. Is the latter a self-contained thing?

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    Il'ja 

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    I haven't read the first "Memed", which is supposed to be great if you can find it. I couldn't. "They Burn the Thistles" is the second installment in the "Ince Memed" tetralogia, but the way it's told, it stands alone. Epic, mythic, muscular writing that, unless I'm way off, claims a bloodline that antedates Homer by a couple thousand years. The tone is more Mesopotamian, perhaps Semitic, than Greek.

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    Rise 

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    Thanks, I hope to find copies too.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Louisa van der Luyden 

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  I found the Maxim Gorky (as well as some of his other writings: Creatures that Once Were Men, and The Man Who Was Afraid) so I will start with him. It looks like I will have to order the other ones. There are some poems of Akhmatova to be found online, but without the Russian version. I don't know how I feel about translated poetry; I think it goes against my principles. Have you ever tried Shakespeare in Ukrainian? Leaves of Grass in Russian? I definitely want to try Housekeeping, although I have never been good at it.
  The Yashar Kemal sounds interesting; I think I will like him much better than Orhan Pamuk :D

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    Louisa van der Luyden (edited)

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    Good news, I have found e-versions of Housekeeping and the Leif Enger book. Everything you recommended (except for the Klima, perhaps...) sounds wonderful. And I am relieved that there isn't any vampire among them. Or did you hide a few here and there in the list?

    I just finished a marvellous book by Jostein Gaarder, which makes me want to scrap my entire list of recommendations and give you just this one, The Ringmaster's Daughter, to read.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Il'ja 

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  I'm glad to hear it...all of it!

  Now for the odd proviso...be reminded that there are two distinct Gorkys: pre-revolutionary and post-revolutionary. It's a simple matter of establishing publication dates, but it can be a bit of fun trying to determine when (approximately) he was writing simply from the prose itself, without looking at dates. Personally, I find "pre" wonderful, "post" largely disappointing, occasionally repulsive. It's not entirely a matter of politics, more a matter of spirit. When Gorky 'went political' he sold his soul and the writing, to put it gently, suffers.

  About poetry in translation we are in general agreement. I do a lot of work translating and I am, at times, concerned about losing good poet/friends because of it. If their English were better, they might legitimately wonder who had written the verse now bearing their names in Latin script. Still, on occasion, something truly outstanding rises up from the muck and the Hayward/Kunitz Akhmatova selection is one of those occasions.

  Most renderings of Pushkin, Blok (my fave), Esenin (ok, another fave), Brodsky (including his 'own' translations, hah!), Tsvetaeva, and that long-suffering Pasternak, i.t.d., are simply dreadful. Our lives are rendered worse for having read them. Moments never to be recaptured. (The preceding sentences employ understatement.) But this Akhmatova, I am stunned: it is that good. If it turns out for you that there is no copy available, I will send you mine somehow. I think you MUST - ok, that's a word - read it. Akhmatova is one of those rare cases when the vocable 'genius' is not undeserved.

  In Russian, she writes almost like a villager with these primitive cadences that shatter your heart. Tsarist era, Soviet era, internal exile era - it doesn't matter: the voice is divine. Besides, how can you deny me? How many American males do you know who read, and weep for, dead Russian female poets? It has to count for something! (She is - ahem - by the way, Ukrainian.)

  A digression: I have been blessed to read a good deal of Shakespeare in Ukrainian. I suppose it's like anything: there is good and not good. Andrukovych's Ukrainian "Hamlet" is wonderful. Pasternak's - again, Hamlet - translation is an example one of those almost mythical instances of divine inspiration. Russians swear - ok, they don't really, but almost - that Pasternak prefigures Shakespeare (we won't get into the space-time continuum complications involved). The Kozintsev film of the same features the Pasternak translation, Anastasiya Vertinskaya as my most beloved ever Ophelia (she was also brilliant in Bondarchuk's "War & Peace"), Smoktunovsky as Hamlet and a Shostakovich score to boot! All of that is just to say, poetry in translation is often a risky venture, but when it works, we need to read, watch, and inwardly digest it. :)

  So now you feel guilty.

  When I gave real thought to you and - as I imagine - your circumstances, the Kemal just jumped out at me. He makes me want to wander Turkey more, put my life at risk. And, yes, I think he recommends himself to you, perhaps to all of us, with greater force than Pamuk, though I do enjoy Pamuk with the exception of that awful, immense, most recent novel whose title escapes me.

  The Americans are honest and have little to do with the frenetic (I'm trying to be kind and don't want to write 'shallow' but now have done just that) concerns of the up-and-comers like Franzen, Eggers, and Foer. So I'm painting with a broad brush as those writers have something to offer, but I snobbily prefer, as Queen Gertrude jibed Polonius, "more matter, less art." So you got stuck with Robinson and Enger!

  And finally Klima. Internal, intellectual, absurd, dyspnoeic settings and rarely any answers, but I love him. And would completely understand if you did not.

  On my (your) list, I'm about a quarter of the way through the Kehlmann. It was a coin toss between that and the Maugham!

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    I have started My Childhood, a very powerful opening indeed! I see what you mean with authors "going political"; I also don't like it when the agenda is too obvious. I had similar feelings when reading Kingsolver's Prodigal Summer recently; even though I agree with her left-wing and naturalistic views, I found it somewhat annoying how she pushed her points upon her readers so relentlessly. And yet I loved her Lacuna and Poisonwood Bible; they were different somehow. More subtle, perhaps.

    All right, I withdraw what I said about translated poetry and will give Akhmatova a chance. I know I have to put my prejudice against translations aside and be grateful since without them we would miss the hidden gems of world literature. I wish I could suggest you some Dutch books that I enjoyed, but it seems that the best of them have not been translated at all.

    Ah, the Kehlmann. When you get to the point where Humboldt is looking for the canal between the Orinoco and Amazon rivers, it helps to keep this map of his within reach:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canal_do_Cassiquiare.jpg

    When I was reading this, I had to lookup some of the anecdotes that Kehlmann refers to, such as the issue with the first Russian diamond and the legend of the Teide mountain in Tenerife. I hope the "temporary" issues with your internet connection are solved :D

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Louisa van der Luyden (edited)

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  I have been brave and reading some of Akhmatova's poems. A lot of them are wasted on me, but there are a couple of poems that I really liked. Such as this one, titled Dedication:

  Before this sorrow mountains bow,
  the vast river’s ceased to flow,
  the ever-strong prison bolts
  hold the ‘convict crews’ now,
  abandoned to deathly longing.
  For someone the sun glows red,
  for someone the wind blows fresh –
  but we know none of that, instead
  we only hear the soldier’s tread,
  keys scraping against our flesh.
  Rising as though for early mass,
  through the city of beasts we sped,
  there met, breathless as the dead,
  sun low, a mistier Neva. Far ahead,
  hope singing still, as we passed.
  Sentence given…tears pour out,
  she thought she knew all separation,
  in pain, blood driven from the heart,
  as if she’s hurled to earth, apart,
  yet walks…staggers…is in motion…
  Where now my chance-met friends
  of those two years satanic flight?
  What Siberian storms do they resist,
  and in what frosted lunar orb exist?
  To them it is I send my farewell cry.
  (March 1940)

  Do I understand correctly that she wrote this while she was in prison?
  And I loved this one about her husband, it had me laughing out loud:

  He loved three things, alive:
  white peacocks, songs at eve,
  and antique maps of America.
  Hated when children cried,
  and raspberry jam with tea,
  and feminine hysteria.
  …and he had married me.

  I suppose feminine hysteria is something that drives many husbands to despair. But she must have been a wonderful woman to be married with.
  And you see: everyone loves old maps!

  About one quarter into My Childhood. What a family! I love babushka.

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Il'ja 

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    Gorky's grandma is something, isn't she? I love the way he describes her cursing while combing out her hair, and then saying her prayers in front of the icon. Brilliant stuff.

    I'll finish "Measuring the World" today. Who would believe that a mathematician could be so fascinating? :)
    And the map! I'm indebted for your advice.

    The second poem you mention there, the past tenses, the triads, the romantic v the mundane, and the irony of the lament itself - a major poet lamenting the loss of a minor poet - was early, and predictive. It's when we begin to see the prevalence of cessative verbs in her later work that her real power shows itself.

    She was never imprisoned, but her son, Lev, was a number of times. The separations had a horrible effect (other than what might be expected) on their relationship. There was even a short period when she allowed her talents to be co-opted by the State; hoping that if she cooperated, wrote some agit-prop for them, they would let Lev out of the gulag. Her ex-husband - Nikolai - was shot shortly after the Revolution for anti-Bolshevik activities.

    In her "Requiem" cycle, she writes:

    Эта женщина больна, ETa ZHENshchyna bəl'NA
    Эта женщина одна. ETa ZHENshchyna adNA

    Муж в могиле, сын в тюрьме, Muzh v moGIla, syn v tiurME
    Помолитесь обо мне. pəmaLItes abə MNE

    This woman is sick to her marrow-bone,
    this woman is utterly alone,

    with husband dead, with son away
    in jail. Pray for me. Pray.

    Her prison was self-enforced. I mean that she didn't move to western Europe when things turned foul, as many Russian intellectuals and artists did, but stayed. She had a son after all. Mandelstam was imprisoned and died there. Mayakovskiy, Esenin, Tsvetaeva and more took their own lives. They arrested her second husband. They prevented her from publishing. She managed to hang on through horrors that are scarcely imaginable.

    We'd be poorer without her. Just my view.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Wow, what a life. Russia under Stalin must have been a nightmare. Unimaginable indeed. Did she know Gorky personally? I see she was twenty years younger, but they must have run in the same literary circles, no? It is interesting to read them side by side, although the times and circumstances are different.
    I am almost finished with My Childhood, I think it is very, very good. At one point, I was moved to tears. Rather embarrassing. You should have warned me that this is not to be read in public. You know what other book this story of Gorky reminds me of? Make a guess.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Ok, I’ll just say it then. My Childhood is a unique story, of course, but it reminded me of David Copperfield. The floggings, the cruelty of his grandfather, the mother who hardly paid him any attention, the poverty. But on the other hand, it is very Russian. I could hear the bells of the troika, and feel the cold as he walked to school with his cousin Sascha.

    I looked up some bits about Gorky’s life and his ideas, and it is interesting to see how the events that he described in this autobiography had an influence on him later on. Can we say that his grandmother, with her stories, helped him to become a writer; mr. Good-business, with his thoughts and silences, to become an intellectual; and his grandfather, with all the beatings, to become a revolutionary?
    And he said it himself so beautifully, somewhere in the middle of the book:

    I imagine myself, in my childhood, as a hive to which all manner of simple, undistinguished people brought, as the bees bring honey, their knowledge and thoughts about life, generously enriching my soul with what they had to give. The honey was often dirty, and bitter, but it was all the same knowledge and honey.

    I thought it was well worth reading, and I am indebted to you for recommending this.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Il'ja 

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    No problem! Though I admit, recommending Russian lit isn't always easy: the contemporary stuff is mostly awful, the classics terrifying in the "mammoth-books-filled-with-dense-prose-Christian-symbols-and-impossible-names" sense, and the Soviet writers so deliberately opaque and historically nuanced that it's inaccessible to most. Gorky has made a mark, and that makes me glad. If, (once the headaches start to subside), you're interested, you might find the other volumes in the trilogy - "In the World" and "My Universities", worthy reads, though "My Childhood" remains my favorite. And I apologize - and fully commiserate - for any socially awkwardness resulting from the book.

    You know what's sad? I meet, often, people here - here - who have never read him, don't want to, and I struggle with that. There is, however, one repertory theater - almost directly across the street on St. Andrew's Descent from Bulgakov's house - that offers a wonderful production of his "Lower Depths" (На Дне). More light reading! :D

    I can certainly see the parallels with Copperfield in Gorky and it raises an interesting point: how familiar was Gorky with Dickens in translation. It's a question I'll need to ask. Whether he collaborated with Akhamatova ever just doesn't seem likely, though he was friendly with Gumilev (her ex). Anna and Max were cheering for different sides in that whole struggle and on Gorky's side, indeed some of his personal friends, were very nasty individuals. I know that he was close to Stanislavski and they worked together in some capacity on the stage. Also Chekhov.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Yes, I think I should like to read the rest of Gorky's autobiography at some point. Did he stay with his grandma? One thing kept me wondering: when he was building that shelter in the garden (which, by the way, sounded wonderful, almost like a little Walden cabin!) his grandfather remarked that they would have to sell the house to pay the dowry for his mother to get remarried. I had no idea that this was such a big issue in Russia as well. I mean, to sell your house and move to a dark room in someone else's basement - for a dowry! That seems so unfair.

    I started with the Housekeeping, about a third into it. Beautiful prose. I found Gilead as well, maybe I'll read that too after finishing this.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Il'ja (edited)

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  My usual response to the collocation "contemporary German best-seller" is quasi-pavlovian: AVOID! I've been less than impressed (admittedly, in a limited exposure) with contemporary German-language fiction, but the Kehlmann story certainly tests my bias. Specifically, the restrained, almost painfully so, interplay between Gauß and Humboldt is so well rendered, so hugely clever, that the effect - and here is my complaint [you had to expect it!] - might dull the general admiration of their real genius. What they accomplished, given the logistical obstacles they faced, is miraculous. And that's my complaint: that's the whole thing. There's so much ill-founded skepticism, the broader society so often stands in contempt of individuals who excel in something other than capital gain. A society that worships silicone enhancements and hedge investments isn't worthy of Gauß, Humboldt, or Kehlmann. I hope that these astounding intellects, coupled and made so approachable in Kehlmann's hilarious prose...well, I just hope the value of lives like that isn't lost among all the wit employed in depicting them.

  I feel old sometimes, Gertrude.

  The account is surely dramatized, but not so surely fictionalized, if my meaning is clear. So many clear moments of discovery, perhaps this - the gut-wrenching pathos at the death of Humboldt's brother Wilhelm's wife - illustrates best how I feel about this read:

  Humboldt held his brother's hand, because he knew the situation required it, but for a time they totally forgot to sit up straight and say classical things.

  I nearly spit out my soup.

  Brothers who hug at arms length. An insatiably curious intellect with no desire to travel anywhere, ever. Measuring the immeasurable is our greatest strength and our most sublime folly, eh? Wonderful, wonderful stuff.

  I've only today seen your note about Borges and Rulfo: recommend away! Your selections are unassailable and will go on the list.

  posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden (edited)

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    Glad you enjoyed it! If Kehlmann, in his enthousiasm, made them sound too witty to the point of becoming caricatures of themselves, please forgive him for that: he was not quite 31 when he wrote it.

    As for Borges and Rulfo, yes, they are well worth our attention. You can start with one of Borges's stories and see if you like him. I loved The Library of Babel, the Circular Ruins, and the Garden of the Forking Paths; these are included in his Ficciones (Collected Fictions) and if you are lucky you can find them in english online. As for Juan Rulfo, it is really important to find a good translation as it is his way with words that makes him special. He wrote only two books and kept perfecting them throughout his life.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    So yes, as Rise helpfully pointed out, there is in fact a good english translation of Rulfo's work. Pedro Paramo and the Burning Plain stories are usually sold together; both are good reads, but the stories ... Well, you'll see.

    I am almost finished with the Housekeeping. What a dreamy, gloomy read! Glad to have a Wodehouse going on next to it, and my kids running around the house to call me back to reality every once in a while. But it is very well written and I can see the beauty of it.

    posted 1 year ago. ( permalink )

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  Il'ja 

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  Cloud Atlas is finally underway. The episodic arrangement is perfect for me.

  posted 11 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Rina 

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    I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this one

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    Il'ja 

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    It will be a bit yet. I'm enjoying it thus far - Mitchell's work is impressive - but I have to go slow!

    posted 11 months ago. ( permalink )

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    Louisa van der Luyden 

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    Yes, slow is the way to go. It took me a while to get used to the spelling in the Adam Ewing story, but after listening to Mason & Dixon you should have no trouble at all!

    posted 11 months ago. ( permalink )

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