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The Rory Gilmore Book Club

"Behold, the thing that reads a lot!"
~Lorelai Gilmore

This group contains books read by all the characters of the show, mainly Rory, Lorelai, Richard, Paris, and Jess. As soon as Shelfari lets me tag group books, I'll have them all sorted out.

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  • HemingwayHeroine

    Part One: Peter Keating - Discussion

    Part One Summary:

    Howard Roark, a brilliant young architect, is expelled from his architecture school for refusing to follow the school’s outdated traditions. He goes to New York to work for Henry Cameron, a disgraced architect whom Roark admires. Roark’s schoolmate, Peter Keating, moves to New York and goes to work for the prestigious architectural firm Francon & Heyer, run by the famous Guy Francon. Roark and Cameron create beautiful work, but their projects rarely receive recognition, whereas Keating’s ability to flatter and please brings him almost instant success. In just a few years, he becomes a partner at the firm after he causes Francon’s previous partner to have a stroke. Henry Cameron retires, financially ruined, and Roark opens his own small office. His unwillingness to compromise his designs in order to satisfy clients eventually forces him to close down the office and take a job at a granite quarry in Connecticut.

    Some questions I thought were interesting and through provoking. Feel free to answer them or start your own discussions:

    1) What purpose does the encounter between Roark and the Dean serve? What concepts and beliefs does the Dean represent?

    2) What similarities do Keating and Roark share? Why does Rand make them somewhat similar?

    3) The Dean states that Roark has "a determined little group of defenders" among the faculty, while other professors "felt it their duty" to vote for his expulsion. Why do the faculty members on each side evaluate Roark and his work so differently?

    4) At the end of Chapter One, Roark comprehends that there is a fundamental difference between his approach to life and the Dean's. Roark understands his own, but not that of the Dean and those like him. He recognizes that there is a principle that explains the difference, which he calls the "principle behind the Dean." Based on subsequent events of the story, explain the "principle behind the Dean."

    5)Peter Keating graduates as valedictorian from the Stanton Institute of Technology. Does this mean that he is an outstanding architectural student? By what methods did he get such high grades? What does this say regarding his moral character?

    6) Keating goes to work for Guy Francon, the most successful and prestigious architect in the country. What are the methods by which Francon has achieved commercial success? Does he have anything in common with Keating? In what ways do they both differ from Roark?

    7) Roark gains employment with Henry Cameron. Cameron, though a genius, is a commercial failure. Why has society rejected his work? Why does Roark nevertheless revere him? What qualities do Roark and Cameron share in common? What is the fundamental difference between them and Francon and Keating?

    8) Explain the meaning of Keating's methods. Why do they work at Francon's? Would Keating's methods work similarly well at Cameron's? Why?

    9) Though Keating often leaves Catherine Halsey waiting weeks for him to call, the author makes it clear that Catherine is special to him. How does the author show Keating's love for Catherine? In contrast to Keating's motive for pursuing his other values (in work, for e.g.), what personal significance does his relationship with Catherine have? What fate will befall Peter if he betrays his love for her?

    10) The design of the Cosmo-Slotnick Building establishes Keating's fame. What is the nature of Keating's relationship with Roark at this point in the story? Why does Keating both approach him for advice and help and take pleasure in making him perform menial tasks while an employee at Francon's? Why does Keating feel a need to degrade the man who is his meal ticket?

    11) Cameron and Roark, though brilliant designers, get few commissions. At one point, Cameron urges Roark to surrender his principles and design conventionally. Given that Cameron himself neither did nor would do such a thing, what is the meaning of that scene? What does Ayn Rand stress about the price paid by great creative thinkers in a society that does not recognize the merit of their new ideas?

    12) The character of Dominique Francon is introduced in this section. Dominique criticizes the work of her own father in her newspaper column and recognizes the fraudulent nature of Keating's work and character, though many admire him. What does Ayn Rand thereby show the reader about Dominique? Why is this important for the reader's ability to understand her coming relationship with Roark?

    13) Despite extreme poverty, Roark refuses the lucrative commission for the Manhattan Bank Building rather than permit the adulteration of his design. When the Board asserts that he is "fanatical and selfless," Roark responds that his action was "the most selfish thing you've ever seen a man do." Given that Roark has just turned down a major commission in order to protect the integrity of his design, what is "selfish" about this? What is Ayn Rand's view of "selfishness" and "selflessness"?


    And some of my own questions for you:

    1) Why do you think Ayn Rand has chosen Architecture as the both boys career paths? Is there something symbolic in the trade itself?

    2) I found it quite amazing that Rand writes one thing, but is also able to invoke completely opposite feelings in the reader. What is it exactly about her writing that has us loving Howard Roark and despising Peter Keating, although Peter is often described as likable and Roark as not?

    3) Both Peter and Roark are driven by the same ambition - to be the best architects out there. How then, are they different? What are the values associated with each boys quest?



    Happy Discussing!

    HemingwayHeroine started this discussion 4 months ago. ( reply )

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  • ericalynnb

    ericalynnb 

    I'm going to have to answer these questions bit by bit as I have time, but I do think that they're wonderful topics to discuss.

    1)The encounter between Roark and the Dean serves the purpose of introducing Roark, and exactly what makes him the ideal person in Ayn Rand's mind. It also is foreshadowing to what happens during the rest of the novel because the Dean represents the opinions held by mainstream culture.

    2) Keating and Roark both went to the same college and grew up in the same area, and neither started off with much money, both were the heads of their class in their own way. The fact that their origins are so similar highlights the differences in the way that they live their lives, which makes the contrasts later on all the more relevant. If Keating had attended a top school while Roark attended a less prestigious one, for example, the differences in their later lives could have been pinned on some other reason. It's like the necessity for having a control in an experiment because this is, in its way, a philosophical experiment.

    3) I think that a lot of the reason that some professors like Roark and others didn't depended on the subject area that they taught. I seem to recall the math teacher being a supporter of Roark. There is only one way to do a math problem, so Roark was a brilliant non-controversial math student. The same is obviously not true of his designs which, while brilliant, Roark refuses to do in a way those teachers wanted.

    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )
  • ramya.k83

    ramya.k83 

    So many questions, so little time! I'll try to answer as quickly as I can. Erica, I think your answer to question 2 was a perfect example. Keating is the control to experimental Roark!
    Here's what I have so far, a lot of which has already been said:

    1. I felt that the Dean represents all that Roark will have to fight against his entire career. It was an excellent way to show us, as well as Roark, that there was something going on in the world that directly blocked him from working the way he wanted; as an individual and a “true” creator.

    2. Roark and Keating have similar abilities, although clearly Roark sees things few others can; but it’s a comparison of similar minds making very different choices. Keating, even though he’s a pretty decent architect, wants the acknowledgement and attention of everyone and he’ll sacrifice whatever individuality/creative he might have; whereas, Roark simply wants the accomplishment of a job well done and the experience of doing it well, according to his standards and with or without the approval of others.

    3. I find this question really interesting, because it shows how differently Roark’s work can be interpreted. This came up in another discussion about which buildings today could have been built by which character and Hemingwayheroine and I were talking about how we actually like some of the classic architecture but we also really appreciate well-built buildings. Those faculty members who argued against Roark’s work were those who focused on the external looks of the buildings and the visual aspect. Those who defended Roark were the faculty members who value the science and math features, the engineering, which cannot be argued against. Either its right or its not; science and math have always been eluded to as universal truths and those faculty members had devoted their lives to the study of that, and Roark was a genius in those areas.

    4. Again, the Dean issue. The Dean represents those who value Keating's "work" more than Roark's. Those who only know how to regurgitate others' work rather than create something of their own. But I guess its a lot more than that. Its also about the people who allowed Toohey to go as far as he did. Its the type of people who will sacrifice everything, including their own selves, desires, values and truth for comfort, for average. I'm not sure what to call it, even Roark just called it "the principle behind the Dean". I guess its the extreme of selflessness, to the point of selling your soul.

    5. Keating only did well at Stanton because he again, just took what he was taught, scrambled it and recited it back. He did well because he was a reflection of his faculty's teachings, their exact same thoughts repeated back to them. While Rand, as well as Roark, do remark that Keating had talent in architecture, he uses that bit of talent to put small twists on already created work, I think I remember Roark saying to the effect of Keating's ability makes the work that Keating does that much worse and grotesque. So his becoming a lead student is a result of both his talent and his ability to please his faculty. This shows that he follows the principle of the Dean. Keating is willing to compromise everything for the recognition of the masses, and of the self-proclaimed experts.
    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )
    show 6 replies
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine (edited)

      I agree that Keating did well in school because he just regurgitated things that had already been done. I just wanted to add the way in which Keating preys on others in order to get ahead. Rather than get by on his own strengths, he endeavors to find the weaknesses in his peers and let them 'destroy themselves' at his hands. We see this first hand when he goes to work with Francon, but another head of class is briefly mentioned at the beginning of the book. Keating thinks about how he needed the competition to get ahead - but I wonder what is missing here. How did Keating really beat this other kid out for salutatorian?
      posted 4 months ago. ( reply )
    • ericalynnb

      ericalynnb 

      I think another major difference between Keating and Roark is passion. Keating never had any passion for architecture, he had a passion for painting. It was his mother who decided that he should be an architect. I think that the theme of people taking jobs counter to their passions is one that comes up at several points in the novel and that is a common action of the "second handers".
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      I agree, Erica. Rand also clearly states that this 'passion' was the demise of Cameron. And in this way, foreshadows that it will be the end of Roark as well.

      I've got this, maybe I'd call it a theory. I don't know. But I feel like I've noticed this in today's corporate world. I'd say about 95% (if not more) of people are on a career path that was chosen for them. 5% or less are doing something they are passionate about. My first job was in Marketing, something I knew I was never going to stay in. I had a passion for Literature and knew I was going to be in publishing. I don't know if I'm like Roark, but I'm certainly pigheaded about getting what I want out of life. I met a lot of animosity. I still do - sometimes. Like, who do I think I am, trying to do something I love, when the rest of them are playing the game to survive?

      In this way, I related quite a bit to this first part of the book. I felt like Cameron and Roark's inevitable failure lie in the fact that corporate society runs by a certain code. This code only truly has room for those who follow the rules. To get ahead, you continue doing the job of others before you (Classicism) and push people over to get on top.

      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      I completely agree with passion vs. i guess we could call it practicality? I actually studied pre-medicine in college before realizing I was completely on the wrong path. It was something I had decided with my parents, because I thought what I wanted most stability, but I was so unhappy studying it I had to re-examine everything. Keating and Roark represent all of us, the two kinds of pressures we feel and the results of whichever choice we make. Please them or please ourselves.

      Back to the book, I think when we discuss Toohey, its really important to get back to this idea, because Rand spends a lot of time focusing on how Toohey talks everyone out of doing something they love. He obviously realizes and is afraid of the strength that comes from that kind of committment. Even when Catherine does what he asks, he talks her out of doing it for selfish reasons, for wanting to do good and feeling good about it.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      You are going to have to help us with Toohey in the discussions for the second part. If you don't mind. I know you read (the name of it is slipping my mind) another work by Rand that helped you understand his character better. I didn't realize that about Toohey until you just said it.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      No problem, I'll admit I'm anxious to get to Toohey's section. I think this book centers around him and what he represents, which completely terrifies me! If anyone has a chance, go pick up The Anthem by Rand. Its only 100 pages, and it shows exactly what Toohey is trying to accomplish. Its a much easier read, and it'll make a lot of this book make sense.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • HemingwayHeroine

    HemingwayHeroine 

    1) The Dean represents the beliefs of the greater society, as you both noted. As Roark travels, we hear the Dean's words repeated through the mouths of others. Keating, Francon, his other employers, Manhattan Bank - everyone. Everyone believes he has great talent, but are angered that he won't conform. This attitude is first given to us by the Dean of the college. This encounter definitely does foreshadow the remainder of this part.

    2) They make such excellent FOILs. Both are very talented and have the same ambition in life. To build and the be the best there is at it. By giving them these similarities, we are able to better see their differences. Perhaps we couldn't SEE Roark as we see him without having Keating to compare him to. Keating searches for domination - to be the best at everyone else's expense. Roark searches to build and only at the expense of himself. I didn't think of it before, Erica, but you are right. Their similarities in college, upbringing, ambition and profession all serve as a control for Rand's experiment.

    This book actually has a number of so called FOIL characters. Francon & Cameron, Dominique & Catherine (though slight), and Gail Wynand & Ellsworth Toohey. This pitting of personalities helps Rand drive her point home.

    posted 4 months ago. ( reply )
    show 4 replies
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      I think that the idea of FOIL characters is right on, because in Rand's notes at the end of the book, we see how she developed the characters. I remember specifically her mentioning which characters were the extremes of each other on their spectrum. Will add more later :)
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      I was thinking to myself - I'm mixing the only math I was ever good at (8th grade math) with English. I always capitalize FOIL when talking about foil characters, even in my annotations. I don't think I should be doing that, I'm just stuck on the FOIL formula for First, Outside, Inside, Last. Oopps.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      Haha its ok. I picked it up from you and kept going with it without even thinking about it!
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      Ha. I'm going to continue then!
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ericalynnb

    ericalynnb 

    4)I think that the principal of the dean is the concept of valuing the opinions of others over your own. Ayn Rand's ideal is the 'egoist,' in her own sense of the word of course, and these people are the opposite. They run so counter to Roark's nature that he just can't understand it. I understand Roark's confusion. I have the same difficulty sometimes with people who run counter to my nature, I just can't figure out why they do things certain ways.

    5)I think that more than anything Peter graduating as valedictorian demonstrates his ability to give people want they want, suck up, etc. Keating was able to give them what they wanted because he had a certain amount of competence and no passion for the subject, so he didn't mind giving them what they wanted. Of course, having Roark help him with a project here and there probably didn't hurt either.

    I'm pretty busy now, but I'll get to the rest eventually, I swear!
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ericalynnb

    ericalynnb 

    6) I think that one of the important factors in Francon's success was the use of his partner. Getting contracts seemed to be about who you know a lot of the time, so he took on as a partner someone who could get him jobs entirely by shmoozing at events, even though he had no architectural talent. Keating does this as well, he always tries to please people personally to get ahead instead of relying on his talent, like when he learns about porcelain to get on good terms with Francon's partner. Both differ vastly from Roark, who doesn't care one jot about pleasing the people, he lets his work speak for himself and get him jobs and he refuses to compromise.

    7) I think that society largely rejected Cameron because his work was different and required thinking to understand and society doesn't like things to be different or require thought. Roark reveres him because he is not afraid of being different, he only cares about designing the best buildings that he can. Peter and Francon, on the other hand, build buildings to please their clients and advance their careers.

    8) Keating's methods of flattery to get ahead and getting rid of competition would not work at Cameron's because Cameron cared only for talent.
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
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    • ramya.k83 removed this reply 3 months ago.
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      I agree. Francon is ahead because of his schmoozing. Flatter the wives, get the commission. No true talent needed.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ramya.k83

    ramya.k83 

    Sorry! I meant this to be a new thread, so i had to delete, then copy/paste!

    6. One important thing to remember about Francon is our first introduction to him. When he speaks to Stanton's graduating class, he ends with a warning to those who wish to be original for originality's sake; he calls it an ignorant vanity. This tells us that Francon is the perfect example of mainstream thinking. He not only knows how to flatter, he also doesn't care at all about what he's doing. He practically lets his clients and staff do all the actual work. His clients say "this is what I want" and his people make it happen. He has no vision, just borrowed ideas. This type of thinking is exactly what Rand is warning us against; the lack of passion or self-achievement. Again, we should def. come back to Francon at the end of the book, because he and his "achievements" start to unravel.

    7. Cameron was rejected because he worked the way Roark wishes to work, which happens to be the exact opposite of Francon and Keating. He wanted his clients to come to him, because they trusted him to do his job without interference. He wants buildings to be original, uncompromised and functionally perfect.

    And Cameron was successful for a little while, because unlike Roark he started out like them, and slowly changed into "modern". I think its also important to state the differences between Roark and Cameron. Cameron had a temper, which made a huge difference. Roark has friends who fight for him, but Cameron put everyone at a distance because his passion was more vocal than Roark's. He ranted and raved, which ended up in the press, whereas Roark simply did his work whenever he was given a chance, without complaint. I think Rand's perfect person is not only in love with what they do, but also detached at a certain point when met with contempt or ignorance.

    8. Keating's methods work with Francon because thats how Francon works. I honestly don't think Keating would have even been allowed through the front door of Cameron's office, but had he been hired, Cameron would have fired him within a day for trying to talk to everyone and lay down the foundations for his flattery and competition, without ever lifting a pencil to paper!

    9. I think Catherine represents Keating's last hope. His one true passion which he has never compromised, yet. Or at least, not completely. Which is why Toohey starts to come between them from the beginning, because what Catherine and Keating have is simply love, the kind that is difficult to sacrifice or compromise. With Catherine, he is ashamed of his work, or at least, in a mood where talking about what he does at work to get ahead would defile their relationship, because it would be in the presence of real passion...does that make sense? So, at those pivotal moments, when they both realize that they must act on their emotions immediately, Keating realizes that betraying Catherine would be letting go of whatever truth he has left.

    ahhhh will get to the rest this weekend, i hope!
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • HemingwayHeroine

    HemingwayHeroine 

    8. Keating preys on the trust of others to move his way to the top. He doesn't do anything that merits his having achieved his success, he only displaces others in such a way that they aren't even aware of it having happened. This would not work at Cameron's because there isn't really anyone to displace. Not to mention that with Cameron, it is solely about the work produced, not social situations.

    9. She, and Roark occasionally, is the only person he is his true self with. His love for her is shown because he keeps coming back. His feeling in her presence is always good, uplifting. Needed. If he betrays his love for her, his last scrap of self, of dignity, of integrity will be gone. And he will just be a shell - moving through life. Doing nothing because he feels it but only because he MUST.
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • HemingwayHeroine

    HemingwayHeroine 

    Outside of the questions, I want to take a moment to state how I feel about the characters thus far. I'm almost done with Part Two, so before I speed ahead and finish, I'd like to stop and take note of how I feel about the characters at the end of Part One - so that I don't forget. The book has thrown me for a loop with Part Two, and that's all I'll say....

    Peter: At this point, I greatly dislike Peter. His 'murder' of Heyer was the worst, his constant need to belittle Roark in order to feel better about himself is ridiculous. You have to wonder how more people don't see through him as Dominique and Roark seem to.

    Roark: is utterly fantastic. He has the passion and determination in him that most people wish they had the strength to carry. I think that Peter is everything within us that we hate, and Roark is everything within us that we wish we could be.

    Dominique & Catherine: I'll lump them together for now. I'm not sure how I feel about Rand's treatment of female characters. If this doesn't turn, I feel I might be doomed to be one of those that hates this book (not the writing or the story, but what it stands for) I don't understand why Dominque is the picture of societal perfection - as if this is a good thing in Rand's mind. The description of Dominique is enough to give anyone who studies body image in media the jitters. Catherine, for all her dowdiness, is true to herself at least. Even if she will end up unhappy. Poor females.
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    show 3 replies
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      Where did everyone go?!?

      Ok, I can't remember exactly how I felt at the point where you are, but I'll try to remember.

      I think I had a love/hate relationship with Peter from the beginning, because he represents so many and because I wanted him to win Roark's respect as much as he secretly wanted him to. His desperation and spinelessness just made me feel bad when I did think of him, which wasn't actually too often. I was so interested in everyone else's stories, that I often flew through his scenes to get to the rest. In that regard, I think that I saw him the way Roark did, with indifference and a little sympathy towards the little good and talent that emerges from Peter once in a while.

      I was completely with Roark until his first physical contact with Dominique. I won't be explicit, because I don't think everyone has reached it yet. This is one scene I would really like to discuss, because I don't understand what Rand is trying to present to the reader here. I understand the "take what you want" idea, but never should it apply in such a situation! What is everyone else's take on this? According to Rand's principles, you should never ask someone else for what you need, but at what point do you have to take another's point of view into consideration? Never? For me, that one scene leaves Roark's otherwise perfect character lacking. It turns his attitude from confidence to arrogance, and talent to brutality. I would really like to hear other's suggestions on how to take apart and view that scene other than for what it is.

      I loved Dominique from the beginning! Her determination to ruin everything before it can become anything takes a strong stomach, and I think her strength is amazing. I don't think that the way she is in the first half of the book is what Rand's ideal woman is. I think she is still evolving into the character she becomes by the end. She is easily the most changed by the events of the book. She acts as she does in Parts 1-3 because its the only way she knows of ruining things that could potentially become important to her, because they can also potentially be ruined or taken away, which would hurt far more.

      I was pretty indifferent to Catherine at the beginning, I think she's also changed a lot by what goes on, especially with Toohey. She shows us what he is capable of, by being one of his most influenced personalities involuntarily. What she means to Keating is more than he ever consciously realizes, but I think her importance in the book is tied to Toohey's character.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      Don't worry, I can't wait to discuss the physical contact between Roark and Dominique as well. Let's wait for Part Two though. I'll start it next week.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      Sounds good :)
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ericalynnb

    ericalynnb 

    9) Peter's life is all about moving his career forward and pleasing his mother. Peter's mom doesn't like Catherine and she can't move his career forward (except when she becomes connected to Toohey) so when he does go back to her that definitely says something. He is going against the grain of the rest of his life by doing so. When he finds out that she is connected to Toohey he is quick to prevent her from introducing them because he realizes on some level that she is the one selfish (in the Ayn Rand sense) thing he has and he doesn't want to change that. If Peter betrays her for his mother or his career it will represent the final break with anything that connects him to Ayn Rand's ideals and since this book is written by Ayn Rand nothing good will come from that.

    I think Catherine was my least favorite character in the book because Rand does a wonderful job of showing just how pathetic she is and I saw too much of myself in her so that made me more than a bit uncomfortable.

    10) I think that Roark makes Keating uncomfortable because he is more talented and more passionate about his work, yet by society's standards Keating is more successful. Keating sees in Roark the passion and integrity he could have had, and he doesn't like to be reminded of what he's sacrificed. Keating feels like he has to degrade Roark because he's insecure and wants to prove to other people that he's better than Roark because if other people think that's true then it is true as far as Keating is concerned because his whole life is based on what other people think. Roark keeps helping him because he sees buildings in need and he has to do what he can to fix it--I imagine it's similar to what seeing an injured kitten would be to the rest of it, we can't help but want to make it better!

    11) Cameron tells Roark to sacrifice his ideals precisely because he, Cameron, did not. If Cameron had sold out and was living in luxury and didn't know the cost it would be easy for him to tell Roark to stick to his guns, but because Cameron refused to he knows how much ideals can cost and he doesn't want to see Roark go through the same hell he did. The scene is important because through Roark's work with Cameron Roark sees for himself exactly what the future could hold if he refuses to cave in. He chooses not to design conventionally with full knowledge of what it will cost him. This makes his actions much nobler than if he had merely stumbled blindly into it and found himself in a mess.

    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    show 2 replies
    • ramya.k83

      ramya.k83 

      I totally agree with you abou Roark helping Keating! He just wanted to fix things, even if its only a little. I think he says something to that effect while designing the Cosmo-Slotnik building. Keating absolutely is in a love/hate relationship with Roark. He hates him because he knows he needs him, he says something about fast Roark can unravel an engineering problem. But he also loves him because he is smart enough to understand what motivates Roark and the strength that Roark has, a strength he never had.

      Do you think that Cameron also pushes Roark to give up just to hear him refuse it? I wonder if in the twilight of his career, Cameron was so happy to be in the presence of that determination and unwillingness to compromise...? He wants to see Roark happy and safe from what he went through, but I think he mostly wants him to realize how close he came to breaking and warn him.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    • ericalynnb

      ericalynnb 

      That's a good point. Cameron has spent a lot of time surrounded by sycophants, so it must be nice for him to finally meet someone from the next generation who shares his ideals. I think it allows Cameron to retire with his mind more at ease knowing that Roark is out there continuing the fight.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ramya.k83

    ramya.k83 

    I'm going to skip to 13 because I feel like this scene is one of those a-ha! moments in the book. When I read it, I literally heard the "click!" in my mind. In this scene, Roark reveals exactly what drives him: selfishness. But not in the present definition of selfishness, i.e. Scrooge. He is self-aware, and uncompromising. The Board believes that by refusing to work with others and give up a commission that he desperately needs, he is giving up his physical needs in order to make a statement. This brings up the idea of doing things for the sake of others; they believe that Roark sacrificing his means of survival is selfess and done to say something to the Board. What Roark sees is that he's sacrificing everything else for what is more sacred to him, his ideals. Building the way he wants is his most important desire, and he is selfish enough to deny everyone his talents and himself the commission rather than compromising. I hope at least some of that made sense...
    The difference here is so subtle and yet so important!
    posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
    show 1 reply
    • HemingwayHeroine

      HemingwayHeroine 

      I would agree with that analysis. It definitely is very important and so subtle one could gloss right over it.
      posted 3 months ago. ( reply )
  • ericalynnb

    ericalynnb 

    12) Rand shows us that Dominique is capable of seeing past the hype around a person to his or her true talent. This is important to help us understand her relationship with Roark because we know that she will be able to see his talent and will not care about what others say about him.

    13) This is selfish because Roark is refusing to allow anyone else's opinions affect his design and because he's not thinking of anyone else when he is refusing to do the project. I don't think Roark is capable of compromise because the only reason people compromise is to please other people, and Roark doesn't care about pleasing anyone other than himself.

    1) From a narrative point of view I think Ayn Rand chose architecture for many reasons, one being that it is capable of being a solitary profession where individuals are recognized. It takes a lot of people to build a building, but only one person to design it. In this way Roark doesn't have to consult other people or compromise and can be entirely selfish, but it also allows for possible collaboration. Not many careers can do this. Also, it is entirely possible that Rand just had a keen interest in architecture I remember reading in the back of my book that she actually spent some time working in an architect's office.

    2) A large part of this is probably just because Rand gives us much more information on the characters and their motives than anyone around them would have. She shows us the real face of each beyond the mask that the public sees.

    3) I think there is a slight difference in their ambition. Peter wants to be considered the best architect, and Roark wants to be the best architect. Peter only cares about being the best for the recognition, money, and power involved. Roark wants to be the best architect he can be so that he can make the best buildings. I don't think Roark cares at all if about the money and fame and all the rest. Peter, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care whether or not he really is the best as long as others tell him that he is.
    posted 2 months ago. ( reply )
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