uplandpoet says

as to the tricks of a century ago that you refer to, stream of conciousmness is like anything else, there are masters and wannabes, i think you will find joyce and faulkner and few others were masters, then it became a craze and folks who couldnt write a novel straightup did SoC and thought they were something, good luck with you reading journaling, but i suggest you try the rest of joyce before you come back to this one.

posted 3 weeks ago

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uplandpoet says

your comment looks more like a review, but never mind, the big thing is that there seems to be two kinds of snobs, those who follow the snobbish set slavishly, and those whose snobbery comes from thumbing one's nose at that set. I find myself vacilating between the two, but it seems you are firmly in the latter. i found all of joyce to be enjoyable, but as i have stated before here and elsewhere, i think he put the first 100 pgs in to annoy most of us.

posted 3 weeks ago

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brian denton says

I really wanted to give this book a good review so I could look smart and all, but I just can't do it. This book will appeal to the insecure intellectual type who likes to reference a century old literary gimmick called stream of consciousness, while mispronouncing didacticism and voting Socialist.
There is just too much verbiage in this book. Too many adverbs. At one point in the first chapter Joyce writes of a character: "He had spoken himself into boldness." Well, Mr. Joyce, it seems you have written yourself into boldness. The author also writes that "history is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake." Reading your book was a nightmare from which I am relieved to have finally awaken.
One of the main characters, Stephan Dedalus, is a wannabe writer struggling in Dublin. In Chapter Three of the novel we find that Stephan once had great literary ambitions but has been beaten down to a two-bit teacher in a Dublin school. If we read Stephan Dedalus autobiographically, then we see that perhaps Stephan's (Joyce's) fall from grace as a proud poet to a defeated teacher manifests itself in Joyce having to write such an elaborate, intellectual and difficult book.

The book is not a total loss, however. There are some pretty funny puns and the final chapter is really great, though it is a forty odd page sentence. Chapter Six is a terrifically funny chapter. With that said, after reading this novel I am at a loss as to why it constantly tops the lists of the greatest modern novels of all time. Once again intellectuals prove that you can be absolutely brilliant and have no idea what's going on.

Best passages:

"Darkness is in our souls do you not think? Flutier. Our souls, shamewounded by our sins, cling to us yet more, a woman to her lover clinging, the more the more."

"Refuse christian burial. They used to drive a stake of wood through his heart in the grave. As if it wasn't broken already."
-on suicide cases

"That last day idea. Knocking them all up out of their graves. Come forth, Lazarus! And he came fifth and lost the job."
-a jew, Mr. Leopold Bloom, trying to make sense of Catholic Ireland and its theology.

"We are praying now for the repose of his soul. Hoping your well and not in hell."
-Mr. Bloom on trying to make sense of praying for the departed.

I will leave with a warning about this book. The quote comes from chapter seven. I think we should keep it in mind before lavishing unwarranted praise on the novel:

"We musn't be led away by words, by sounds of words."

posted 3 weeks ago

(read brian denton’s review)

uplandpoet says

gosh, did i? i shall have to add a star, hmmm, i must admit, i do so thoroughly dislike the first 100 pages, it probsably put me off when scoring...

posted Saturday, May 10 2008

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zero says

If you say so: came across as a slighting comment, but I can overlook that.

I wasn't actually accusing you of being an academic; I honestly believe Joyce's intention was to write a book exclusively for the University crowd (a sucessful attempt to establish his legacy in literary history.) It's not an accident that Ulysses is the only book I know of where the first thing people direct you to do is take a college course in order to understand it.

Do you really have that hard of a time seeing how somebody wouldn't enjoy the novel? Even beyond all the obfuscation, is the story really that profound? I think Joyce is just a short story writer who fell back on his (considerable) literary talents to disguise the fact he couldn't develop a novel length narrative. In that sense I find the novel a little desperate. As an experimental work it's bound to fail, and does so, frequently: the novel as a whole remains up for debate (in my opinion at least.) As I said earlier, I found the saving grace in the closing soliloquy.

You're in better company than I in championing it, but I don't think my questioning the novels readablity has that much to do with my ability to understand it.

**apparently you "previously rated this books 2 stars" so you can't disagree with me that much**

posted Saturday, May 10 2008

uplandpoet says

no, as i stated, i am not a literary academic, i jsut meant if you did not find ulysses a worthy read, maybe it was because your tastes wen to simpler, more straightforward story telling, i have not prerused your shelves. it was more a critique of you disciunting this book than a judgement of your overall reads. if you enjoyed his other works, as did i, then it must just be a matter of how this volumne struck you. glad to hear you enjoyed the lectures.

posted Saturday, May 10 2008

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zero says

Strangely enough, I have taken the Teaching Company lectures! which were vast improvement over the novel ;)

I think the only people the "Ulysses" is intended for are said English professors; they are thilled to have such a baroque literary cadaver to dissect without fear of being challenged by students. It's basicly XXX rated academic pornography ("Wake" -which I am currently reading- must be snuff.)

I admit I'm a tad perplexed by the Rowling/Grisham suggestion considering your library appears no more "literary" than my own. Perhaps I just don't accept the status quo and thus have a different opinion? I like "Dubliners" and "A Portrait" (with reservations) just fine. There's just a little more masterbation going on in "Ulysses" than on the page.

posted Friday, May 9 2008

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uplandpoet says

keep in mind, i am an uneducated luddite, and a pure philistine, so weigh my commentary as such:)

posted Friday, May 9 2008

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uplandpoet says

okay zero, as much as i fear english teachers and their clumsy grubby attemots to explain the mystery of a great book, maybe you should follow Bob Rs advice and take a look at the Teaching Company lectures, if you read through the book adn still feel like burning it, hmmm, i think you missed something. either that or maybe you should stick with grisham and jk rowling

posted Friday, May 9 2008

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uplandpoet says

i dont know, i was familiar with homer shakespeare and the bible, and a little with irish politics, and the greek myths to get the whole Dedalus/Daedalus thing, so maybe i got it subconciously, but i think it stands as a free reader best enjoyed without overt observations to other contexts, much as alice in wonderland can be taken for its satire, but is better read as a delicious and raucous story

posted Friday, May 9 2008

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