Ida Rahayu Jamli
- Petaling Jaya, Se, Malaysia
- member since March 17, 2011
Just thought I'd let you know that I have rejected some of your combine for http://www.shelfari.com/books/469182/The-Standard-Edition-of-the-Complete-Psychological-Works-of-Sigm as they were volume 24 only, and one of them was missing some volumes.
Just a note to tell you how much I appreciate the quality of your edit requests! It is always a pleasure to process your work.
Oh Ayu! I replied mecanically and forgot absolutely your good wishes :P
I'm extremely tired. The release of the annual issue of an academic publication with an article I wrote was delayed a few months, but it's going to be published within a couple weeks... And I have come across some very interesting finds about the subject at the last minute! So I have my head somewhere else... :P
Do you celebrate the New Year's Eve? The Iranians --and I think the Chinese as well-- consider more important THEIR New Year, which starts on the first day of spring. Anyway, have lovely days and enjoy the company of your family and friends, Ayu ;)
I'm not certain, but it may be related to the length of time it's currently taking Shelfari to process requests once they've been approved. Author rename requests and combination requests seem to be taking around 5 days to complete their processing. So maybe the contributor pull-down issue is the part of the same problem. Shelfari hasn't acknowledged the problem yet... but since these things used to be almost instantaneous, something has changed.
Hello Ida Rahayu Jamli. I wanted to let you know that while processing title change requests, I noticed that there were a number of books where you were requesting to remove (Graphic Novel) from the title. This is a special case where the notation should not be removed. According to the guidelines: "If the content of a book is other than a standard offering, include "type" in title: Graphic Novel, Adapted, Retold. etc. using convention "Title (type)"." In the case of graphic novel versions of books that were not originally in the Graphic form (such as the Agatha Christie books), I denied your request to remove (Graphic Novel). Thanks for all your hard work editing, if you have any questions let me know.
Sorry, I have no memory of this (processed almost 5000 requests over the last two days!) I suspect that I either left off a check mark or something.
Resubmit and we'll catch it as we steadily reduce the size of the queue!
I will answer now to one of your comments, when you said «So imagine my frustration, when I finally started and all these glitches happened! Especially as I am rather obsessive and absolutely hate the dreaded blue cover. When I first joined Shelfari, I spent considerable time making sure that all my books had covers on them and everytime one disappears now, I have to go and replace it.»
Well, it seems the "dreaded blue cover" (or, in my words, the "default standard blue cover"), which I also hate, is one of the problems some people are experiencing with the recent instability of the system. Besides disappearing book covers, some top 100 editors' pictures have disappeared from the top 100 page (although the statistics is counting their position).
As I see it, it would be convenient to stop editing for the time being, although there is no official word in that respect. I don't really know if editing, while we still have bugs or "instability" or whatever (I'm ignorant about computer science :) might make things worse. I guess when the site is wholly repaired the disappeared covers might come back (although I cannot guarantee that) or, if they didn't, it would be better to replace them when the site is fully repaired.
Have a nice Sunday :)
Hello Ayu :)
I'm happy to receive your note.
I don't know much about some technical aspects of Shelfari. There has been an "automatic editor" all the time I have contributed as a Librarian, but I might learn something more about the subject you are asking soon.
It's extremely late here (my beloved Shelfari makes me live as a nightly vampire and I am scared dawn might catch me still up and around) but I will write more soon.
Have a nice weekend :)
I always enjoyed talking to you but we talked so much that we are naturally taking a rest (*grin*).
I saw your post to the Librarians and Editors group but I did not answer because I am very ignorant of technical issues. I remember I approved one of your edits about The Pricking of My Thumbs, but I don't remember if that was a combine, a title change or whatever. Well, nasty naughty bugs we are having around :P
The bug has not affected my private shelf (save for a cover that disappeared and I replaced for a different one) but I know somebody posted me a note (I received notice of it in my email) but the note has not reached my Shelfari wall of notes nearly a day after it was sent.
Have a nice weekend!
Sounds like fun and a country that very wisely integrates its cultures and traditions. It reminded me of Senegal, a Muslim country very tolerant. Inter-religious marriages are very frequent there so they end up celebrating in the families multiple religious festivities like Ramadan and Christmas. They tend to follow Sufism, especially the school of Sheik Amadu (Ahmad) Bamba. The first president of independent Senegal, the poet Léopold Sédar Senghor, had studied at the Portuguese University of Coimbra and decided that there had been historical links between Senegal and Portugal, due to the presence of Portuguese navigators in African coasts from the 1400s. So, despite the fact that the country had been a French colony, it maintains a friendly relationship with Portugal. So it is not uncommon to hear spoken Wolof in the streets of Lisbon, especially in certain areas where they tend to concentrate or meet. It sounds to me like an African "German" because of the frequent sound -kh-.
Enjoy your Eid-ul Fitr, Ayu! :)
Well, I'm also very fond of Shelfari. I started building my library a year ago in a different community of readers which I found had a few advantages over Shelfari, but I got tired after putting into it some 30 books. I don't know why, I had developed a sentimental attachment for Shelfari. The funny thing is that I am very concerned about languages and the respect for them, even the bigger ones toward minority languages, and I found that other site more language-friendly. But opting for Shelfari granted me the opportunity of becoming a librarian and pay some attention to that area. Shelfari seems to care about the very interesting internationalization it has, it is simply that at the moment it is growing and paying more attention to other priorities.
The moment I became a librarian, I noticed you were editing those contributor names and I had no idea about the question. I tried to take a dip into the Bahasa Malaysia Wikipedia in search of one of the authors. The author seemed to be unknown there, so the Wikipedia asked me: Maksud anda....? I found it funny, I could not understand any Bahasa, but the question was very recognizable thanks to my Arabic: I saw the past participle of qaSad, to mean, and I saw the Arabic "you", "anta", in that "anda", so it sounded something like "mean you...?" (did you mean...?). Anyway, the best thing to do seemed to ask you directly, so that's how I had the pleasure of meeting you :)
I found funny the Nepalese work as security guards in Malaysia. They were used as warriors by the British, the Gurkhas had a reputation of being fierce. They seem to be very pacific in Lisbon, working in groceries they own and exotic clothes and incense shops. There are also sikhs in Lisbon, also engaged in trade. Like many other Indians, they have a particular trend to own little cell-phone shops.
The same as the British took Indians to many parts of their empire, and were employed for example in building the railroads in Uganda --and occasionally feeding lonely male lions abandoned by their families and too old to chase wild animals :( the Portuguese took Indians from their Portuguese State of India (which was lost to the Indian Union in the 1960's) into Mozambique where they served the European coloners and engaged in trade. When Mozambique achieved the independence in 1975, everybody smelled problems and a civil war, so most of the Portuguese fled massively the country and many Indians followed them to Portugal. Most of them are Sunni Muslims but there is also an important community of Ismaelite Muslims --actually, the Ismaelites have in Lisbon one of their three biggest Muslim centers in the world.
It is funny that, while only 1 out of 8 Indians is a Muslim, in Lisbon that proportion is probably reversed: 7 out of 8 Portuguese Indians is a Muslim. Many of them speak Urdu, but they have other communities here. I have read that Gujarati is another of the languages spoken in Lisbon. The Bangladeshis and Pakistanese started pouring in later, in the 1990's, but the former community of those two grew quite a lot.
It is interesting how they communicate: Urdu and Bengali are not too similar but at least they are languages of the same family. There are more Bengalis understanding Urdu than Urdu speakers understanding Bengali, but they tend to talk together in a fluent mixture of both languages. I have had breakfast on two or three occasions in a BanglaDesh restaurant: nashta, a spicy vegetarian stew. They give me a spoon but I eat it with my fingers helped by the bread, like most of them. They are calm and polite so they try not to look directly at you, but I can feel they like a European eating like them.
Ah, a very dear friend of mine told me in his last email that he had read our public notes and found me so modest about my language abilities that he thought my modesty nearly amounted to lying to you. There's some inter-Portuguese-Spanish joke in his saying so. The Portuguese think the Spanish are terrible for languages and he thought I was giving you the impression that I am not an exception and that all Europeans are excellent for languages and particularly the Spaniards. My friend said - if she comes to think the rest of the Spaniards are like you, you will be responsible for that monstruous lie :D
I must confess that I knew very little about Malaysia but you're drawing an interesting picture to me :)
I do not have idea of a significant Malay community in Lisbon. I just met Azim a few months ago. He was a Malay with double nationality (he also had an Australian passport) and was touring the world. He stayed in Lisbon for a few months. But there are very conspicuous communities of other Asians here, lots of Africans (not just from the old Portuguese colonies but also from former French colonies - Congo, Senegal and Guinea-Conakry, Brazilians, Arabs, some Turks, lots of European University students, European and American tourists, workers from Eastern Europe (especially Ukrainians)...
I'll write to you in more detail later. I need a little rest. I'm feeling something similar to jet-lag from having irregular times of work and sleep :)
Another coincidence! I must say that the sense of education and formality between Malay and Portuguese is strikingly similar. Spanish is much more frontal. But I wouldn't say the Spanish are more unpolite than the Portuguese. There's another perception of politeness. For example, if the sidewalk is narrow and you are walking faster than the person ahead, the Spaniard will feel it and step aside to let you pass. There's silence in it, but the person ahead considered you needed to pass and took action for you. The Portuguese might feel that you're walking faster, but most of them will not move an inch. Then you will have to say very sweetie: Excuuuse meee... Would you let me passs? They will pretend surprise as if they didn't know you were there and say: Oh... but of course... Do pass ahead... (stepping aside, finally). What if I was a foreigner who did not command the language or, worse, if I did not have a tongue? Would they force me to utter pathetical sounds until they understood I was dumb and needed to pass?
About my speaking languages, I am more similar to people in the North of Europe. The Norwegians speak a small language (only a few millions can speak it) but they are not limited at all - most people will learn several, so no surprise if you meet a Scandinavian speaking Norwegian, English, German and probably a fourth language (maybe French or Spanish). The Spanish were not very interested in languages traditionally, although the younger generations get around better with English nowadays. The Portuguese from the cities in Portugal (not from the countryside) are usually better than the Spaniards, although that is not included in the "genius" of the language, an extra ability to learn others - the Brazilians speak another variety of the same language and they are usually even worse than the Spaniards at speaking languages.
They sent me very early to school (at 3) and it was a special place where it was forbidden to speak Spanish - everything was in French. I became so traumatized that I became absolutely mute for 6 months. They changed me to a more normal school in Spanish, but having English as a discipline. I was never interested in English until I was 9: they changed the methods and those books had lovely cartoons with developing stories in English. I could not wait until the lessons would explain the story, I read the whole book in a few days, torturing everybody around to explain me the things I couldn't understand... And I discovered I loved learning languages (except French).
Gender? Most European languages have it, English is just a funny exception. Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian... have just masculine and feminine, like Arabic. But other European languages have three genders: they also have the neuter. And the problem is that grammar has its own mysterious rules, independent from the physical world. So a young lady could be referred to, in German or Bulgarian, by the neuter gender, not the feminine :(
Cantonese or Mandarin? They must be very difficult! Among those Oriental languages, Japanese, of another type, must be much easier. Then, if there are Indians in Malaysia, Hindi could be easier to learn than Mandarin or Cantonese, but there's a problem: I don't know which Indian peoples live in Malaysia, and I've heard the Indians from the South hate Hindi and avoid learning it.
Then there's a funny thing: if you learn Hindi, you will immediately understand a lot of Urdu, the official language of Pakistan. It is a funny situation of two important languages that from the grammar and pronunciation point of view, are really one language. The Wikipedia calls that diasystem (they have two different script systems and the Indian nationalism cleaned Hindi of words of Muslim origin, subtituting those with words of Sanscrit origin. Although Urdu is the national language of Pakistan, there are more speakers of it in Northern India.
I just remembered I sometimes go to a little shop near my place with cheap products and closing at midnight (so I don't have to worry if the supermarket closes at 9h00 pm). I thought they looked like Indians so one day I asked them, out of curiosity, if they sold tobacco to chew (they didn't). The following day, they were excited to conversate and asked me if I could speak English. They thought I was familiar with Asian affairs (from that question about the chewing tobacco :). They are from Nepal and can only speak the basics of Portuguese, so they just sell, they can't talk to the customers. That is why they were excited to talk to me.
The Asians run little shops in Lisbon - groceries, Oriental clothes, halal meat shops, kebabs... The Ismaili Indians are very prosperous and have more luxurious businesses (Indian restaurants, luxury hotels...). The Chinese became very prosperous in a short time and Lisbon started having a new community in the nineties, when immigration rules were "easier" than nowadays: from Bangla Desh. The Bengalis noticed how wealthy the Chinese had become and studied their system of business to copy it, and they are becoming prosperous themselves.
There's a commercial centre in central Lisbon absolutely unlike the very modern Portuguese commercial centres, oxygen smelling and shiny modern architecture. When you go into the stories of this centre --the Moorish centre-- you think you are in an Asian bazaar --the colours of the products, the piling of lots of boxes, the African vegetables, the rice and smell of Chinese food... A Senegalese shop had finantial problems and they had to sell the business, immediately bought by a Bengali lady. But since it had been sold as a whole, with all the stuff included, the Africans continued to shop there. The lady soon learnt Wolof to talk to the customers. I find it funny, an Asian speaking an African tongue, all this in Lisbon.
I have only lived in Lisbon for one year, but I like reading and learning about the place where I live. And I like to interact with foreigners and feed my curiosity for their cultures.
Oh my God... I'm sometimes mysteriously silent (a tad shy?) but when I start talking, I can't hold my horses! :)
Yes, not only thousands of miles between two countries... That can be unimportant when you speak the same language. Argentina or Peru might be very far from Spain but, despite the different intonations and some peculiar regional words, we immediately recognize the common mother language and establish an affinity. The funny thing is that Bahasa and Portuguese have nothing in common as languages but then the system of treatment or formalities is so similar.
Referring to oneself in the third person is not exactly what happens in Portuguese but there's something similar --some people use that continually and some others only occasionaly: it is referring to oneself as the people. I'll give you an example: "I want" could be rude (you expect a command like "so you must give me"). To go around that you could say in Portuguese - The people wanted... (The Portuguese can say "would want" but colloquially they prefer "wanted", giving the past tense a value of conditional or hypotheses).
You mentioned the idiosincasy becoming less common... Yes, the treatments of respect evolved a lot in Spanish in recent years, especially after dictator Franco died in 1975, so I have witnessed that evolution since I was born in 1964 (and got familiar in my childhood with previous ways of speaking through old cinema). When my parents were children, by the end of the 1930's and beginning of the 1940's, it was still commont the treatment of respect from children to parents, especially in villages or the country, but I think my parents would treat their parents by "tú", since they were from the city. When I was a child, I met nobody treating their parents with the form of respect. But a daughter-in-law might still treat today her husband's father by "usted", the Spanish form of respect.
When I was at school (a catholic school so somehow conservative) nobody would treat the teachers without respect, and even the older teachers would treat the children by "usted" (the younger teachers accepted naturally the "usted" but would treat the children by "tú". When I arrived at the University, 7 years after Franco died, I was "horrified" to see how my fellow students treated the professors so directly, by "tú", "hey, listen to me..." Anyway, nowadays I would reserve "tú" in my private contacts with professors and a more respectful treatment to themselves in, for example, an international meeting, among other colleagues.
The formal treatment in Portugal is evolving very slowly. It will take decades to reach the Spanish situation.
Yes, I knew the Portuguese were in Malaysia. I also read a historical fiction set in those "Portuguese" lands last year (http://www.shelfari.com/books/1634291/1613). It was set in a small island probably in Eastern Indonesia nowadays (Solor?). "Cristão" means Christian in normal Portuguese (the ~ makes the -ão be pronounced through the nose, not the mouth). I also know there's still pidgin Portuguese in some parts of India (and here it is frequent to see Portuguese with Indian faces). I have only heard African pidgin (Crioulo), present in Lisbon (Lisbon is like a crossroads of Europe, Africa and Asia). The first song is Portuguese africanized, so I miss a few details:
Now, the second song is a mixture of French, Portuguese and Crioulo, so there's a lot I miss, I just understand loose words:
I say wow myself!
The situation of treatment in your language really reminds me the complex situation of treatment in European Portuguese, much more elaborate than Spanish or even Brazilian Portuguese! There's "tu", like in Spanish, for close relationship, "você" establishes a distance but does not really show respect (in fact, it is used among low people or from superior to inferior) and maximun respect is exactly the same as in Malaysian (so the dentist will ask me: What does César want me to do for him?). If you don't know the name of those you are addressing, you will use something else instead: Mr. Professor, Mr. Engineer, the lady... (The lady would like me to help?). The problem is even bigger with a few regional treatments, and different values of that "você". It is usually considered a way to put distance but not really respectful, but then it is quite acceptable in other situations and can show intimacy, especially in Brazil.
"Menina" is a little female child (properly younger than 10-12, but it can be used as miss. Something funny is that some pretentious families give the highest formulism of treatment among members: «I would like to ask a little money from the father» «If the "menina" is good, I shall give it later» «But I would like to inform the father that I need it now» «The "menina" will be given it later» «But oh father...» (and now, this is the funniest thing-the father, irritated, gives up that formality... something goes wrong) «Shut up or I'll slap YOUR face!».
In general, when you don't know the treatment to give, you put it a bit higher. So many people end up being called «Mr. Doctor» if they seem to be people of letters (or a real medical doctor) or «Mr. Engineer» if they seem people of science.
Sometimes, you get a funny surprise. I could see an old lady and offer «Can I help the madam?» And she might reply with sweet eyes: «Don't call me "madam"... I'm a "menina"» (glubbb) Which is funny, because she seems to be very interested in informing me that she is single (actually, could be divorced or a widow), using the words «I'm a little child».
To complete these curiosities about Portuguese and Spanish, I could say that both languages are very similar, especially in the written form:
Mary has many (female) friends and (male) friends;
Maria tem muitas amigas e amigos (Portuguese);
María tiene muchas amigas y amigos (Spanish).
Both languages share many peculiar expressions that would sound incredibly strange if translated literally. For instance, to be nervous or have your nerves on edge can be said in both languages "to have your nerves on the flower of the skin". And the sense of humour can be quite similar in both languages. But there are very important differences in mentality. While the Portuguese can be extreme improvisers in taking decisions to modify the course of their lives, social relations are the opposite, completely formal and elaborate, while the Spaniard is very direct. While the Spaniards will treat their University professor with a simple "you", the Portuguese might go with a Mrs. Professor Doctor. And while I might kiss my professor hello, the Portuguese wouldn't dare any more than shake hands (probably not even that). I remember one evening I went to a popular square where young people sit and drink wine. I was wearing a colorful and youthful Nepalese jacket. The people sitting by my side were drinking wine. They asked me a question using "you" but they must have thought my reply sounded learned and classy, so they tried to "soften" the "slip" of that "you" and, handing me the bottle of wine, they asked -- Would your lordship care for a taste of this wine? A Spaniard would think he was being teased. His innocent seriousness only showed a readjustment of treatment :)